here’s the logic-
“we’re striking because GM doesnt want to pay us $30/hour to build an over priced cheaply designed pile of shit car that has a bad re-sale value. But for all of the people that go out and buy one of them BETTER foreign cars you’re un American”
yeah thats the reason
where is ugoslow or what ever that UAW douche is?
and people need to realize it is over priced under designed because of the UAW
[quote=“misteroman$$$,post:19,topic:35866"”]
Also please remember that not all GM employees are lazy,drooling idiots as everyone believes.
D
[/quote]
BS, all the stereotypes are true… :roll:
[quote=“91CRXSI,post:21,topic:35866"”]
here’s the logic-
“we’re striking because GM doesnt want to pay us $30/hour to build an over priced cheaply designed pile of shit car that has a bad re-sale value. But for all of the people that go out and buy one of them BETTER foreign cars you’re un American”
[/quote]
please refrain from posting if you have no idea what you’re talking about… that’s not the reason.
[quote=“66impalass,post:23,topic:35866"”]
where is ugoslow or what ever that UAW douche is?
and people need to realize it is over priced under designed because of the UAW
[/quote]
hit the nail right on the head
GM actually turned a profit in the last quarter of 06 so I’m sure the UAW is using that as a big indicator that GM can afford to give them more.
As anti-union as I am when it comes to county and state government I can at least see a place for it in the private sector. We all know that if GM didn’t have a big union fighting against them every single GM product would be made in China or India. Toyota isn’t building cars here because it wants to help provide American jobs, it’s doing to to get around import tariffs that were putting them at a big disadvantage when it came to pricing.
Of course, when you have an entity as powerful as the UAW that power corrupts and you get union demands that mean GM isn’t a viable entity. Even though GM going bust would be the end of all those jobs for those very union members they don’t care, and they just expect the government to jump in and bail GM out if it comes to that. Things like huge pension plans and health care for life stopped being a part of non-union private sector jobs a long time ago. UAW workers should have to plan for their retirement the same way the rest of us do and until they do that it’s hard to blame these problems on GM corporate.
And enough with the bullshit union line about “it’s all because of CEO salaries”. CEO salaries are such a tiny part of GM’s budget it’s not even worth mentioning. It looks great when you can point to some guy who made 2 million in a year, and it makes the knuckledraggers rally behind their UAW rep, but it’s not the problem.
[quote=“JayS,post:27,topic:35866"”]
GM actually turned a profit in the last quarter of 06 so I’m sure the UAW is using that as a big indicator that GM can afford to give them more.
As anti-union as I am when it comes to county and state government I can at least see a place for it in the private sector. We all know that if GM didn’t have a big union fighting against them every single GM product would be made in China or India. Toyota isn’t building cars here because it wants to help provide American jobs, it’s doing to to get around import tariffs that were putting them at a big disadvantage when it came to pricing.
Of course, when you have an entity as powerful as the UAW that power corrupts and you get union demands that mean GM isn’t a viable entity. Even though GM going bust would be the end of all those jobs for those very union members they don’t care, and they just expect the government to jump in and bail GM out if it comes to that. Things like huge pension plans and health care for life stopped being a part of non-union private sector jobs a long time ago. UAW workers should have to plan for their retirement the same way the rest of us do and until they do that it’s hard to blame these problems on GM corporate.
And enough with the bullshit union line about “it’s all because of CEO salaries”. CEO salaries are such a tiny part of GM’s budget it’s not even worth mentioning. It looks great when you can point to some guy who made 2 million in a year, and it makes the knuckledraggers rally behind their UAW rep, but it’s not the problem.
[/quote]
:tup:
none of it is “because” of union salaries.
but its indicative of the culture.
GM is a corporation derived to make profit.
not to entitle employees to life long anything.
management made mistakes when they were fat and happy.
now that they have to compete, they have to take it away, and people will fight to the death to keep what they have recieved.
our parent company is a union shop. they are shipping as much of their production stuff to our malaysian facility as possible.
thier union folks do not seem to care.
as it is explained to me, they feel… “i’m #27 to be laid off, so what do i have to worry about” of course they will find new jobs packing boxes for $23/hour.
employees need fair treatment, but the corporation must remain viable other wise
they should close up shop. they are not in it to provide a public service.
New York State funded Ford $100,000 to employ minorities
[quote=“JayS,post:27,topic:35866"”]
pension plans and health care for life stopped being a part of non-union private sector jobs a long time ago.
[/quote]
Why? corporate greed? The “they’re doing it so we have to too” argument? Is it so wrong to expect a halfway decent retirement and health care, since we’re the only industrialized country that it isn’t provided? This isn’t a race to the bottom. Ironically, GM is one of the few places where laborers could afford to sink any money into a 401k, how the hell can non-union workers “act like everyone else and plan their own retirement” when they make $10 an hour? We are heading toward a work 'til you die culture, and the elimination of unions only speeds the process.
That said, hopefully they will recognize that they are in this together, and come up with a deal that works for everyone. GM’s new product offerings have real potential, and if there’s enough the public that doesn’t echo the fuckstick closed-minded viewpoints of people like 91CRXSI, it may just turn out OK.
Tell me why people with phds make 50K a year doing extensive bio research to cure cancer, while a guy turning a wrench with not even a GED makes double that…?
/stirring shit.
If it wasn’t for my GM pay check, I couldn’t afford to suuuuppppppeeeerrrrrcharge the Z3.
[quote=“BikerFry,post:5,topic:35866"”]
Just another step towards GM’s inevitable death and rebirth… as a division of Toyota.
[/quote]
:ohnoes:
:hitit:
JayS, I agree with much of what you said except:
[quote=“JayS,post:27,topic:35866"”]
UAW workers should have to plan for their retirement the same way the rest of us do and until they do that it’s hard to blame these problems on GM corporate.
[/quote]
Yes but why? Instead of taking the approach of “let them suffer like the rest” you could say “why shouldn’t all employers be required to provide these benefits?”
I have no sympathy for GM on their pension and healthcare obligations. Sure they have 339,000 retirees receiving benefits, but some of those people were contributing to GM in the 1940s. If the pension funds were properly managed there would be plenty of money. Rather it was mismanaged and lots was lost in the 90s stock bubble. Furthermore instead of socking away the big money they made in the 90s they gave it back to the execs, shareholders, and out as bonuses. This goes for all of the Detroit 3, not just GM.
The big reason for this strike is job security. If you read the industry news you’ll see that there are about 20 plants slated for closing between the three companies in the next five years. That is a lot of jobs. And it’s the younger workers who will suffer.
I work in a UAW shop (I’m not union) and I hate the union as much as the next guy. And it’s the old people (40s 50s 60s) who suck and give the UAW much of its bad name. They make the top money and don’t do shit. And they don’t care they are just waiting for the buyout. I find that many of the younger workers really do care about what they are doing because they are smart enough to realize that they need to continue to be employed.
On one hand I think the strike is a good thing as somebody needs to stand up to this problem of corporate America. Everything for profit at the expense of the worker. Make money for the rich who cares about the workers, et cetera, it’s all in the GOP manual. As somebody said they’d make the whole damn vehicle in China by now without the UAW. As it is there is more Chinese content in their cars than they would like you to believe.
The problem is I don’t think GM can afford the strike. And since our government is so blatantly irresponsible (if that isn’t obvious I don’t know what is) they’d just let GM go bankrupt and/or layoff thousands since it is our government’s policy to not give a shit about the working folk.
I work for a Tier 1 and this is going to be a mess. I figure we can bank maybe two weeks of product. After that there will be at least a couple hundred people with nothing to do (temp layoff maybe). Then we’ll have to shut our suppliers so we don’t keep buying parts without shipping. It will cost us in fees and cancellation charges and such from our suppliers. They (tier 2s) may run into those same issues of their own. This industry is a big machine and closing that many assembly plants will be a big, big cluster. I guess I can just watch and see and hope it doesn’t make my employer so broke they decide to lay me off.
[quote=“misteroman$$$”"]
Just thought I’d let you guys know if you hadn’t heard already.
I think Andrea had something to do with this since the build date will be delayed now.Was slated for this week(24th)
D
[/quote]
guess the mods should retitle your thread
StairSRT4>Misterioman$$$
cause without your spoon engine, your racing with hopes and dreams
My car is in the shop for an A/C part and now I have to wait for the union to go back to work. So someone can take the part off a shelf and ship it to the dealer.
In Detroit I have to watch what I say.
I agree with JayS. I don’t have a guaranteed job, where if I fuck up, they can’t fire me. I don’t get paid 3+ times as much as I should for the job I do. I am required to be good at my job in order to keep it. My employer isn’t going to pay me a rediculous pension for the rest of my life, including full health coverage.
Now, do I want these things? Yes. Can my employer stay in business while giving me these things? Hell no. And neither can GM, no matter how hard they try. And to say that the UAW is necessary is just plain retarded. Foreign manufactures manage to make a good product, while keeping their non-union employees happy. There is enough available labor to do the jobs that I just can’t understand how the unions are still even there.
No shit!? My neighbor is on the news…channel 2 and 7. Im surrounded by GM UAW workers…and Im not one of them. A few of them admit that they are blessed/lucky, whatever for being able to be able to get the pay, benefits, and the lack of work that they have to do for the $28hr. What gets me is, the people that think they “deserve” that $28hr. for doing a money’s job and say that they can not adjust to a lower pay which would benefit their future. They would rather bleed the company dry and leave it for dead before they try to help. I can understand sacrifice…believe me I can. These people are gonna shit when they kill this company and then need to find a job with there qualifications…as assemblers. They’re going to see the harsh reality that in the ~other~ world outside of GM you only get paid $8-$14hr. to do assembly work.
[quote=“JDMAllstars,post:36,topic:35866"”]
guess the mods should retitle your thread
StairSRT4>Misterioman$$$
cause without your spoon engine, your racing with hopes and dreams
[/quote]
I second the motion for the thread title change 