Honda heads step inside, LS-VTEC advice needed.

So lets say I’ve got a 100% stock B18A or B18B and I have a VTEC head and a nice new head gasket, and intake, also I can tune the ECU possibly

I want maximum power and high RPMs but I need to spend $0 to make things work (or as close to $0 as possible not because I’m cheap but because of classing / penalty laps), I need a reliable motor for endurance racing.

  1. Can I rig the head to run VTEC only/always avoiding the need for oil lines and other things people do for a normal street car?
  2. how much power can I expect over a stock LS car? (assume intake, cat delete, and catback)?
  3. what size exhaust off of the stock header with no cat would be optimal? (again, I don’t need low RPMs ever)?
  4. Can I run without an ECU tune, what are the consequences?

I know this is all a bit weird, but I’m trying to think outside the box to get an edge. I’m not naming the obvious race series I’ve talked about before because I don’t want others googling and finding this thread possibly.

If only it was 2002 and LoudAccord, MrSmith, and Toda were still around.

I’m pretty sure Andy or John would be able to answer this question

I figure there are still people who remember.

If nobody replies I will ping John and make sure he takes a look at this

  1. You can lock the head into VTEC by swapping the pins in the rockers around or inserting a BB behind the locking pins in the rockers.
  2. you will probably pick up around 30 hp with tuning over a stock Ls.
  3. you shouldnt need anything larger than 2.5 inch
  4. Do not run it without ECU tuning, especially if your going to lock vtec in. you will run the engine lean, If you can keep it running at all. If you dont want to do ECU tuning you will need to find a GSR

thanks. So If I lock the pins so it stays in VTEC I don’t need to run an oil pressure line or any other special parts? Do you agree this is a smart move?

I kind of suspected we would need to run ECU tuning. I only bring it up because I can save enough money to run better sway bars, aftermarket springs, maybe a header if I didn’t need it really bad.

Now let me throw you a curve ball. Let’s say I can do anything to the “cylinder head” at all, if it’s considered a part I can upgrade to anything. what should I do?

Skunk2 pro1 cams and supporting stuff are looking nice but maybe with the stock header and TB I should just go ITR?

b16 and type r heads flow really well stock i would make sure the timing belt is fresh or get a gates belt as for cams depends on the tune.

You might have to drill a hole on the head or remove a pin I forget what it is for the b series heads. Also I was going to say the same thing about the pins on the rockers the k20a3 guys do this all the time.

JD built my old lsvtc integra back in the day and did a pretty damn good job at it for what it was. Im sure he could offer you some good insight.

No you wont need to run the oil line to the head and you actually get more consistent oil pressure since vtec is basically just a controlled oil leak. In vtec you lose about 12 psi of oil pressure across the board after the crossover.

Pro 1’s are too large for your setup

Locking your rockers in Vtec will create a pretty crappy low rpm idle, but can be fixed by simply raising the idle. it will also increase wear on the valvetrain and the cams. If your going to lock it in Vtec I highly recommend using an oil with zinc and ZDDp additive.

EXCELLENT input. I don’t care about idle, it’s a racecar, if it can hold idle that’s good enough.

So what cams or headwork would you think I should go with? I need to live at high RPMs for up to 24 hours, but it’s ok to rebuild every 50-100 hours of use. Lets say I can do any tuning to the stock chip that I want. I just can’t add any more race parts.

also, when you say I’ll have cam wear, how bad are we talking, I don’t want to shoot myself in the foot.

I would run oem type R cams 98+ spec.

Lock the rockers and run a special chip that disables vtec cel and had high end mapping made for vtec cams

Fyi you will need to buy or make dowel pins so that the head and block line up correctly

If you’re going to be at high Rpms why worry about having vtec all the time ? It will be engaged anyway. Not sure about bseries but can’t you just have the ecu engage vtec at a certain throttle position/rpm without the car running like a pile of dick when you’re not WOT?

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You have to understand that this $10-$15 line potentially puts me over budget with how tight things are to allow me to run a VTEC head with ECU tuning and even if I would rather use the budget to have camber plates or something else.

I don’t even know if other teams will catch on to the remote possibility that a VTEC head might be possible to run and I’m hoping to capitalize on this to match e36 power in a lighter car.

That’s why I need honda peeps to give me edge. I can literally do anything to any head and put it on this car, but external bits and bobs cost face value and I have like $5 to play with.

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Ah ok. Yea I can see where that would make more sense then in this case.

Do you have a total allowed budget ? Or a budget per certain aspects of the car like suspension, engine, exhaust ? Or does a modification take off certain allowable “points” and not necessarily monetary ?

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there isnt enough oil pressure at low rpm’s to engage the pins in the rockers. you can either lock it in place or run the lines so it can engage normally.

So every car has a fixed base price and then you can spend up to $500. Some items are free, some are a fixed value, and others are actual cost. (Not what you pay, but what you can prove anybody could buy for today). Add everything together and you better not be over $500 or you start taking on penalty lap.

Cylinder head is fixed $150 value
ECU tuning is fixed $50 value
Our car is $250

  • other secret mods I’m right around $500

So it’s imperative that I maximize my ability to do anything with cylinder head and tuning.

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Depends on alot of things, The high lobes really arent designed to be engaged for longer than 30-45 seconds at a time. If you use a good oil with zinc additive it will most likely be fine. the most you may experience is some rocker wear that requires the valves to be adjusted a little more often.
I use Penn grade 1 because of the high zinc content. Its expensive but it keeps the cams and rockers from wearing.

Is this for LeMons racing?

Yea disco I forgot about that so locking it seems like the best choice then.

Cylinder head internals count as cylinder as a whole I am assuming ? What about porting an existing part like an intake manifold or throttle body ?

What head do you have a b16 or gsr ?

Like Saxon said the itr cams will probably be your best bet. You can probably scoop some up for around 150 And will work better for your setup.

The ecu tuning will really help the most

What type of fuel are you allowed to use ?

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