I’m going to be back in town for a couple weeks and wanted to build a small concrete fire pit for my rental. Where do i find the laws/code requirements for this? Any insight would be great so i can start gathering supplies… If it matters, it’s in Hamburg.
i assume regulators, but not sure.
Also, what about running the gas line underground (specifically under brick pavers) what material does the line have to be? Depth?
any insight would be awesome, online searching is turning up a bunch of crap.
used to put these in when i did landscaping in college…personally i don’t remember a single one of them getting inspected by anyone. The typical setup was a unilock block wall with a 3/4" natural gas line with a valve on it run underneath to a burner which was then covered by lava rock. i’m pretty sure we used to get the burner as a kit from some place. there was also the super cheap version which was an old truck wheel filled with lava rock…that was usually installed flush with the pavers. so i couldn’t be more helpful.
in my life as an architect since i do believe there is a particular distance from the structure you need to be…what that distance is exactly, i can not say for sure without opening up the building code…but there is a minimum distance, i’m sure of that at least.
it would fall under the same stipulations as hard-lining a BBQ grill… I beleive minimum depth of cover for gas line is 36" in our climate region if I remember correctly, but I was forced to turn in my code books when I switched jobs in february so I can’t go paging through for specifics. I would go iron pipe 36" burried with a vavle and regulator at the house where it’s coming through the wall. It might not hurt to check out 811digsafely for questions, they have a fantastic help line you could call. that or just call town of hamburg building department…but they might tell you that you have to pull a permit.
buring the gas line 36" deep is interesting to me… since i wouldn’t be using it as a supply for heat in the winter, i’m not concerned with the reliabilty of a reduced output or the line freezing during winter. Does it still NEED to be buried 36"? There’s such low moisture content in natural gas, it’s not like the pipe would burst.
…alright captain specificity…the new york state fire code 2010 is what you are going to want to look at. based on a quick look i would say that it falls under the open burning and recreational fires section found in the general precautions against fire in chapter 3. based upon the descriptions there i would expect that the pit would have to be at least 25 feet away from any structure…although if a code official were a particularly big dickhead they probably could make you put it 50ft away if the pit is wider than 3 feet in diameter.
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404.9.1 Individual outside appliances. Individual lines to outside lights, grills or other appliances shall be installed a minimum of 8 inches (203 mm) below finished grade, provided that such installation is approved and is installed in locations not susceptible to physical damage.
just 8 inches don’t worry…we would typically run the line below the gravel layer of a typical paver patio installation.
3/4" line? Is he trying to replicate a forest fire in his back yard?
As far as I knew, buried lines are supposed to be copper. At least that’s the way it is out here with me for Propane. There used to be problems in NG with the additive that makes it smell causing flaking of the copper pipe leading to weakness and clogging of orifices… But that’s long since been fixed. NG/Propane codes vary a bit…
8 inches makes sense. Though i disagree (but i’m not sure, based on definitions by code) with the pit falling under an open burning or recrational fire since the only fuel is natural gas. It’s not intended to be a fueled by logs or fire. I think this is more likely to fall under as an “appliance” or “grill”
Not sure it helps but my house in Williamsville had a NG powered grill in the back yard that I dug out a few years back. Shut off valve in the basement and copper from there all the way to the grill. I’m not 100% sure how deep the line was buried since I only dug up enough to get the grill out of the ground but judging by the bend at the grill it looked about 10-12" down. I’ve always thought about digging down to find the line, tapping into it, and extending it the 15’ or so I’d need to put a small firebox like you’re describing near my pool.
I was just at Niagara Fireplace in NFB just north of the 290 and I’m sure they’d have all the stuff you need to do this. Plus they probably know the code stuff you’re unsure of.
i would personally use corrugated stainless steel (CSST) rated for direct burial underground usually has a black jacketing on it. A 1/2" line will be fine unless you plan on putting this pit 200 yards from the house. I will check the fire code and and fuel gas code this morning in the office.
just after a quick chat with my boss…National fuel normally buries their pipe 2’-0" below grade and 5’-0" from the building should be safe for the fire pit with the shut-off valve in the basement would be sufficient… but i will look at the codes for you too
Springville Country Club has an awesome one they just put in a while back, I can’t believe how much heat it throughs. The flames are so big it must cost about $10.00/minute to run. lol
Clearances for Outdoor-Open Flame Appliances
Flame Height Above Burner Head------- Distance from Combustable Material aka House
12"------- 2’-0"
18"------- 3’-0"
24"------- 3’-0"
30"------- 4’-0"
The code also says minimal burial depth is 12" since the gas will be shut off in winter you dont need to freeze protect it
I would prolly do 2 gas valves…on inside for them main shut-off in the winter and a local valve at the pit…but Josh is smart as was prolly going to do that anyway
wood burning is a totally different animal…gas is much more controlled
i would call the town too… they usually have their own rules on that stuff too
^thanks for the info! For the grill there I currenly have the gas line (black pipe) coming out of the house with an elbow with both exterior ball valve and a shut off inside. Hoping I could just continue the line to the fire pit and tee off the grill from it.
Is there any mention of control valves, regulators or antyhing else of the sort required?
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that’s the plan, but only the top. I’m thinking about just making the top out of concrete like my countertops, then building a base for it and tiling it. Im gong to draw it up today.
regulators are generally at the meter…they usually knock it down to 8-14 inches of water column which is pretty standard operating pressure for most gas fired appliances with the exception of large commercial equipment. If you are buying like a kit it should include everything u need to run the pit properly…you could just tee off the grill line and that should be sufficient as far as the actual gas line itself
Open buring is prohibited, recreational fires must be a minimun of 25 ft. from structures and CAN NOT produce smoke as a nuisance to surrounding neighbors
yea towns are usually have their own adaptations. I like to think that assumes wood burning fires as opposed to natural gas but its all really on how you interpret
I called Hamburg Building Inspection today and they said that since this is clean burning, it would be the same as Gas Grill with the exception that it’s “recommended” to have it farther away from anything combustible since it would be open flame (makes sense). He said he a minimum of 10ft from the house which would be the same as any external structure (like a shed). Other than that, the gas line should be buried 18" below the surface unless it is not likely to be damaged where it can be 12" from the surface. I need to do a bit more research on the line itself, but according to NFG, they require that there are no unions below ground and that the line is coated to prevent corrosion.
Nothing required in-line except for a shut off valve.
