Not surprising JnJ is wrong you can do it with HP Tuners.
"1 bar Speed Density Enhanced
Applications: 1999+ Gen3 V8 (Most Operating Systems)
This enhancement is designed to aid in tuning vehicles operating in speed density mode (MAF-less). It includes a re-enabling of the dual spark table operation and also a TPS/RPM referenced VE table modifier feature designed in co-operation with some of the worlds leading LS1 speed density tuners. This new table is designed to assist in tuning of very large camshafts and intake designs that lose a lot of MAP resolution and/or have very narrow MAP dynamic range during idle and cruise transitions. It allows for traditional SD tuning methods, Alpha-N (TPS vs. RPM) methods or a mix of both to achieve the optimum tuning result. Another feature of the Speed Density Enhanced option is the lesser resolution secondary VE table is not used when in speed density mode.
The 1bar Speed Density Enhanced option includes:
Speed Density mode only
Dual (High and Low Octane) Spark table support
new VE Multiplier vs. TPS vs. RPM table, with non-linear TPS resolution and RPM resolution
Secondary VE table not used (if applicable) "
1 bar Speed Density Enhanced in action…
Here’s an example of the advanced capabilities of the 1bar Speed Density Enhanced option in use on a large camshaft naturally aspirated stroker engine fitted with an 8 throttle body intake (courtesy Sam’s Performance). This engine exhibits the classic symptom of a large duration (270+), sub 108 lobe center camshaft: low idle vacuum. It also shows erratic and fast moving MAP readings, where just 2-3% throttle application results in MAP heading over 80kPa even at substantial engine speeds. This results in similar zones of the VE table being hit under different driving conditions and also gives very little tuning freedom for fueling in the available MAP ranges. This is where the new VE Multiplier table plays an important role. The new VE Multiplier table adds throttle position as a new dimension to tuning these engines. You can now adjust the VE table result at different TPS and RPM conditions and therefore eliminate troublesome fueling issues.
“With this feature from HP Tuners I can make even the wildest naturally aspirated engines behave on the street. Fueling issues that create drivability and idle quality compromises are definitely a thing of the past.” - Sam (owner Sam’s Performance, Sydney, Australia)
Now I just have to find a legitimate tuner that doesn’t live down under. Hhmmmmmm
---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------
Waiting on a return email from SAMs in Australia about the tune.
Also calling new era around lunch to speak with mike (tuner)
The owner said they do speed density all day at long.
As long as I can pull a map reference and tps signal it should be like tuning any other car via speed density. I assume ha.
speed density will be fine. Gap the throttle bodies accordingly and iacv wont be needed. I ran my bmw without an iacv without issue for years. cold starts will suffer but only if driving the car in -deg weather. or you could always build a plenum box for it like the s62 does with its throttle bodies.
You honestly make yourself look stupider every time you post. He asked about Alpha-N and HP Tuners does not support true Alpha-N. Do you even know what that is? The answer is no since you just spewed out some 1 bar enhanced BS.
True Alpha-N will not require MAP input for fueling. It is only TPS vs. RPM and very crude. It will be a little challenging to get a good MAP signal from all the ITBs tied together. You might want to consider megasquirt. That will do true alpha-n tuning if that is your goal
It does Alpha-N via VE Multiplier vs TPS vs RPM while not being 100% Alpha-N it will give him the ability to tune his ITB setup effectively…Since Alpha-N tunes have drive ability issues anyways the hybrid model would help get around that
Basically HP tuners has the features to tune a ITB car and it has been done before with HP tuners.
On other cars like Hondas a lot of the ITB setups are tapped and you can run them to a central block for a MAP sensor hopefully this is the case.
This pretty much goes back to the time you said a 2.5 BAR map will never work/run right on a LS1…Then we went and made 900hp :lol:
Talking to a shop in Texas yielded great info. I do need to tap into each runner for a vacuum source and tie it to a vac block. Easy enough. The only thing that scares me is the iacv. As it is a motor that turns the throttle plate and not like a honda that uses vacuum and coolant temp to adjust for idle
Again you miss the point I wouldn’t consider a VE multiplier table with 0.0-2.0 range a true way yo tune alpha-n because there is no resolution. Alpha-N has nothing to do with VE or a MAP signal. Try to tune a car with hp tuners alpha-n style with no MAP sensor hooked up and let me know how it works
Yeah the 2.5 bar lol. I guess again you know more than the software engineer at hp tuners that said it wasn’t a good idea.
The entire point was he wanted to use HP Tuners to tune an ITB setup.
You CAN use it and it has been done before was the point of my response.
Besides running purely Alpha-N on a street car is :tif:
The issue with this and the 2.5 bar map stuff and every other tuning question that comes up is you think you’re some authority on HP tuners and that is far from the truth there are a handful of people in the world who can make this claim…You should constantly be learning you told us the 2.5 bar would never work and was impossible then we went and made 900hp and it drove great so clearly it wasn’t impossible and could be setup correctly.
The fact you think you’re an expert is scary if you want more evidence I learned the basics of HP tuners and had my trex car running and idling better then the big cam cars you touch.
It’s also a shame that Chuck did the vast majority of tuning for your shop over the years and you attach your name to any success he had…
I’m far from an expert however I know my limitations and understand how to get the answers
You’re far from an expert and afraid to not know the answer or admit you’re wrong so you spew bullshit and defend it endlessly. However this is really odd because you build great engines outside of your horrible worth ethic and ability to get things done in a timely manner.
Your reading comprehension sucks dick. The whole part of true Alpha-N via TPS signal only is NOT POSSIBLE with HP Tuners. No matter how much bullshit you want to sling toward me you still are not correct. He will need MAP input therefore it is VE with TPS scaling mostly used for large cam cars that idle at high kpa values. I have forgot more about tuning then you know.
Not that I want to jump into this but the engineers from hp tuners are who gave me the 2.5 bar map scaling. They are in full support of running it. I would like the contact information of who you talked to there and quotes of anyone who said otherwise. If they work there and are giving information on behalf of hp tuners they should have the correct information. A map of ANY bar made using the same voltage range will run with the correct math applied to the scaling. This is a very basic concept any engineer should understand.
I know you have stood firm on this issue for some reason but its OK to learn new things…975rwhp is hard to argue with for if it works or not.
A guy on the datsun forums has an ls1 with itbs making about 530hp N/A he said tuning was done with hp tuners. I will message him for you and relay any info I receive
“You can delete theMAFsensor, There is a 1bar SD OS available for the 99-02 F-Body PCM’s via HPTuners that runs entirely off of a VE table and also has TPS modifier table vs RPM so that ITB’s can easily be tuned”.
