MegaSquirt2 V3 or Bikirom for SR

SON240sx Automotive
21

that is just it, no one around here that any of us know REALLY knows how to use these things, and the guys who say they do are likely to not be as familiar with them as they claim to be.

find me a guy that has successfully tuned a Megasquirt to run a car efficiently and safely to the maximum potential of the modifications on the car, and someone who has done this many times, and then i’ll go with a MS. same for bikirom.

right now though, the only proven method is a tuned ECU. way less risk and you dont have to waste hours learning to tune your car.

most of us, including people in this thread who claim to understand standalones etc. are just daily drivers and will never be engine tuners.

i’ll let engine tuners like Scott Avoy tune my engine, i’ll stick to selling parts, jabbering online and messin around with the girlfriend.

22

My point BEEN SOON, was that the bikirom is a valid alternative as people have suggested.

and I DO know someone who can install it and tune it for you like I said.

They are already running it in their car and they work at a tuning shop as well.

23

But…um…Scott didn’t “tune” your engine. You’ve basically bought an ecu that has been modified based on a theoretical list of modifications.

This to me is not “tuned” as every car is different and all behave differently.

Now thankfully for you Scott is really good and his ecus are proven to make power … but what I don’t like about this option is that it limits the ability to expand or change your “list of modifications”

Also - I notice you keep talking about a tuned ecu and using a SAFC…this to me is just goofy. Why have a ecu tuned for timing and fuel only to use a hack to trick the ecu to behave differently. This is contradictary to your love for a tuned ECU is your are already prepared for it to be off…explain?

24

Oky - that I agree with but previously you had just mentioned you would get someone to install it and someone to tune it…you won’t learn like that unless they walk you through every step…unlikely

I agree - hands on learning is the way to go…

25

[quote=“Happy240sx”]

Also - I notice you keep talking about a tuned ecu and using a SAFC…this to me is just goofy. Why have a ecu tuned for timing and fuel only to use a hack to trick the ecu to behave differently. This is contradictary to your love for a tuned ECU is your are already prepared for it to be off…explain?[/quote]

Well it is just like you said, all engines behave slightly differently.

and you are also correct in that Scott Avoy has never seen my car. But he has seen cars that are using the exact same set up as i have and he has created an ECU that a acknowledges the use of a Z32 mafs and 550CC injectors, he also eliminates the speed cut.

the reason that an SAFC is used is to perfect the generic tune.

JWT ECU’s are known to run on the rich side. this is not an accident. the reason a conservative tune is created is to reduce the risk of having a couple guys blow up their cars because of the ECU being too aggressive in one of a number of ways.

using an SAFC to perfect the AFR of the car is always good, especially when you know you have a tune that is generic for your set up and not for the particular nuances of the engine in your car specifically.

the wideband is an aide that allows you to make corrections with accuracy, as opposed to seat of the pants tuning which is probably nothing short of stupid for people who have little to no tuning experience.

i know you knew the answer to this question, because you have a wideband and i know you are also familiar with Enthalpy racing service.

i hope the answer i gave is what you were expecting. i dont wanna dissappoint.

as far as addressing the concern of limiting the modifications you can do, i agree but i contend that most people do not know what it feels like to have 350rwhp, and that if they were to drive with 350rwhp they would soon realise how dangerous and utterly useless it is for a driving on city streets, which by the way is where most of the mileage on our cars occurs.

i’ve also said a hundred times on here that building a track car for the street is faggotry. building a street car that can be great on the track is what people should be doing.

as a result you dont and probably shouldnt keep changing your set up every month.

once you get your car running properly at 350hp you might wanna keep it the way it is. the engine is already pretty volatile at that point unless you have done thousands of dollars of internals, machining and tuning. changing things around all the time will only produce more opportunity for failure, and one that is likely to waste thousands already spent and cost thousands more to reproduce.

also, there are many parts that can be changed without compronising the generic tune. you can change turbos, intercoolers, exhuasts, and most other bolt ones aside from maybe the mafs and injectors without obsolescing the tune. because afterall, it is a generic and conservative one. if the ARF’s are affected, you have the wideband and SAFC to recorrect.

26

Well - the thing I don’t like about the scenario you describe is that the SAFC also messes with timing…

So the more you try to correct the fuel…the more you alter timing…and before long the tune has potential to be nowhere near ideal.

27

umm…

no you are wrong somehow.

sticks out tongue

nyah nyah

28

Bahaha – is that your expert opinion or is that just internet mumbo jumbo.

29

Oh – you added more to your post.

I would disagree that you can change parts on a generic tune. Anything that affects VE will put a tune way out of whack.

I recently just changed my turbo, turbo manifold, turbo outlet and the tune I previously had was now horrible. Back ot the drawing board for me…

but no biggy…I’ll just do it on my way to work :smiley:

One thing you and I agree on – building track cars = lame. You’ve been in my car and I think (off boost) you would agree my car is quite tame. I think your comment just prior to hearing the wastegate dump was “wow, this is refined”

30

ya I know, that is the problem, it is quite a hard decision

ok so phil,
for the pcie you told me that comes with the Bikirom,Map,install,Dyno Tune??

31

An OEM ECU is not ‘100% tunned’, thier is no such thing as ‘100% tuned’ as you’ve described it… The process is not 100% effecient, ( combustion), so you get as close as possible and that’s all you can do, as you approach the performance envelope of whatever engine. It’s not only about tunning, but about the quality of the parts that make up the whole, not just one single part.

32

Using an Safc to ‘perfect’ a tune is not going to happen… ever. Those systems are a 2D map based, a linear projection. It can make NO accountability for loading at all, all your doing is adjusting the specific gain at one load point along the rpm band… this will never fine tune an ECU that works in 3D.

33

i was talking only about air fuel ratio, seeing as that is all the SAFC does and because beyond that i dont know anything else and have no desire to learn.

enter the less than 100% tuned ECU

34

BEEN SOON,

If you are interested, like I said before, I’ll just have to confirm the price etc.

35

jeez for a while i had no clue what BEEN SOON meant…

36

bing you seem to forget my car was running on MS the entire summer…12k km.

Right now, i’m just finishing up my harness and should have ignition running on MS within the next 2 weeks. I’m buying some dyno time to tune her myself in April sometime.

The whole reason Chris’s MS got messed is because someone stepped on his main board when they were swapping engines. In lemmins terms, the component that was broke he tryed to replace using a similar component and fried the etches on most of his boards, as well as the FET drivers for the injectors.

Andrew.

37

i dont doubt that your car was running on MS but my car wasnt running on MS and i was still faster…of course that means nothing, and i know that.

i wasnt arguing that no one can make a car run on MS i am saying that the benefits of an MS cannot be taken advantage of, and perhaps shouldnt be taken advantage of, for many people on here. including someone that is just looking for a set and forget tuning set up like benson appears to be looking for.

the margin for error is much larger, the liability is all yours, and the expertise is out the window.

blaaaaaaaaaarg…

this is all subjective anyways.

some people are arguing what the BEST system is when no one here needs the BEST system there is.

i’m arguing that you dont need things like the MS is you are running basic mods.

time is also a major factor because time is infact money. As such Plug N’ Play should command a premium over systems that require 25 hours of install, set up and tuning.

shit, many of us (you guys) dont even work for 25 hours a week but you’ll spend hundred or thousands of dollars on a system that will take you the equivalent of a weeks labour to get going.

boooooooo

how many people here are broke and yet still have a car that is essentially a pile of crap by any reasonable persons standards?

exactly

38

BAS, eat a dick … really.

How about you come down to MSSC and talk your trash to my face? You’ve been on my balls since what feels like the 4th grade and I’m still trying to figure out if you want to have sex with me.

If you want to trash my shop, don’t do it on a forum, come down and do it in person.

I’ve been nice and professional and left the Battle Hair Salon out of this.

We don’t do tuning on site because we don’t have a dyno. Our tuning is outsourced to Neetronix.

He won’t touch MS either. Not because he’s scared of it, because he’s not familiar with it. You don’t learn on a customer’s car.

And yes you can use the MS on a Nissan with a distributor, but some people still have a lot of problems getting full advance. There’s an extensive thread on Hybridz.org about it. But again, I haven’t paid any attention to the KA/SR side of the MS, I’ve only really dived into the pre-87.

39

I, for one, know pretty much nothing about this entire topic. However, I read it all.

I think i’m with bingo on this one. I don’t doubt the power and ridiculous amount of fine tuning that is involved and is achievable with a MS-type engine management system.

I do, however, doubt most peoples ability to tune it correctly and efficiently. And that my friends is where I step away. I think multidimensional tuning is best left to the people with expensive cars, and expensive modifications.

I don’t fit that bill.

Most people on here don’t.

We’re not professionals by any means.

Switching to MS and what not obviously has insane amounts of cool-ness factor, but with great power comes great responsibility.

And I don’t have time to deal with it. I have a car to drive it. I don’t want to spend time in the garage/on the computer, hypothetically driving it.

40

just reading all that made my head hurt… :?