so what do you guys think,
these are both value prices managment systems,
if you could get them both installed for the same price what would
you choose and why??
dont know to much about either of those but have you looked into SDS? i know a few ppl who rly like that
blaaaaaaaarg…
still not sure why people are buying these things if they dont know how to tune a car.
i understand that people want to learn how to do that, but i wouldnt want to learn to tune on an engine i have $6000 into.
enthalpy ECU and a wideband w/ SAFC. easy and pretty foolproof to get a safe and efficient tune.
or get a JWT with a wideband and an SAFC
especially for a street car, why do people want to spend days and days learning to use these things.
Chris bough the Megasquirt, had it running well for a bit but hasnt had it in his car for a long time now because something broke. Chris is also alot better with these systems and troubleshooting tuning and electrical problems that most people.
now he’s just using a AFC, not even and SAFC, and his car is running great.
people are trying to find too difficult a solution to a problem that really isnt that hard.
you want your car to run well, you dont want to create a crazy aggressive tune on your car that you drive to work.
a mail order ecu to compensate for Z32 mafs and bigger injectors and an air fuel controller that u tune using a wideband is going to be cheaper in the long run as well.
firstly you are going to want to get a wideband anyways so you can have some accurate feedback rather than tuning by feel. SAFC’s are cheap, reliable and very easy to use.
the ECU is plug and play from proven tuners.
and especially a guy like G. Why, with all the problems he has had this year wiht his car, would he want to try his hand at learning to use the bikirom… it blows my mind… 8 months to do a clutch, hey lets tune our own car…WTF?!?~
i love you G
At the people underestimating my (tuning) capabilities
And it’s even more funny that people think the problem I had with the KA
was supposedly due to my lack of knowledge.
Benson I’d go BikiRom. You’ll pull your hair out with MegaSquirt.
Ya but remember, that is already having it installed,
So I my self do not have to worrie about getting and putting it togeather.
all i have to get done is two bring it to a shop with a dyno and a Wideband and get it dyno tuned there. get it set and leave it.
how much does it cost in the end?
G i’m teasing,
no wait, i’m serious, i really do love you
For me $500 installed with map sensour running injectors and base tune to get around town on before Dyno tune.
about $750-800 for ignition also <----- that is with everything
What do you mean by ignition? What ignition?
I’m using the MSNSe (Megasquirt n spark Extra if you need to know, on the original MS [not MSII] V3.0) because I am a) modding the crap out of the motor, and b) it is coming without a wiring harness or ecu, or … well you get the picture
The Megasquirt is amazing.
The problem is it is open source. IE that means if no one else has figured out how to integrate it with your motor, you have to figure it out yourself.
If you’re just using it as a fuel controller, it’s pretty straight forward.
But getting into ignition as well as fuel, it gets downright confounding.
To use it with a Nissan product, you’ll need to either upgrade to the Ford EDIS trigger wheel, or buy an SR CAS wheel from Autronix or the like.
Then your tuner actually has to be familiar with MegaTune, or he won’t be able to tune it. Yeah, it is fairly straight forward, but the tuner probably won’t want to touch it.
So with Mega Squirt, you’re looking at a) deciphering all your own parameters, b) making the ignition work,
All of the imbedded code is downloaded from an internet resource. So if you use someone else’s set up, and they f*ed it up, you’re in trouble.
MSII is also relatively new. They’ve just finished testing it, and it was only released in June 05. They are still finding problems with it, and the new coding is not available for a lot of vehicles yet.
But the features available are downright staggering. A fully operational MSNSe will blow most other engine management systems out of the water. The processing speed and use of onboard MAP sensor is pretty awesome.
But it’s 100% DIY
It is after all Linux for cars.
SDS are ok, but they are pretty fricking expensive when it comes down to it, older technology and really, they look like they were built by Radio Shack. You end up about $2,000 in the hole once you buy all the ancillaries you’ll need.
well if you hav an sr i assume you do not need an SR CAS wheel?
I would just have to find a shop that know how to tune them,
It would only be running injectors with a mild set up T28BB/fmic/550’s…
MS is for the hardcore.
Biki is pretty much a daughter board that lets you write fuel and timing
maps directy to your ECU (similar to what Entlalpy or JTW would do).
As well as other shit like RPM cut and speed limiter removal etc.
And it uses the stock sensors and CAS. So it’s win-win.
im using an SDS em-4
Where do people get off on saying its hard and unsafe to use? If you actually do some reading and research you shouldn’t have a problem, and unless your a complete moron when using it theres no reason for your motor to be harmed in any way.
With my SDS, its all values you have to input for setting such as manifold pressure, rev limiters, starting temp. and other settings. SDS makes it easy for people to tune cars properly as they have tables for specific motors set up on their site so that you can input the values to have it running properly. From their you can increase your cars performance be increasing the values given from the SDS site.
All in all i believe running a standalone has many advantages over running a tuned ecu and z32 mafs. It may take some trial and error at first, but atleast you know exactly how your car is functioning. Standalone’s aren’t for lazy people, you actually have to get up off your ass and do a little research.
still need it…
the MS wont work with a stock nissan CAS, some switch to a distrib “ford unit” so they can use the ignition system on their SR then.
I myself am going Bikirom… 
See BEEN SOON.
FTW.
Ford EDIS, it’s been used on pretty much everything isnce the 80s. It’s a little toothed wheel and pickup sensor that bolts/glues to the front of your crank pulley.
The Nissan CAS wheels have 320 slots, way too many for the MS to cope with to set timing properly. People have gotten it to work, but usually they give up full advance and have misfires at high RPM.
Biki is a daughterboard, not an EPROM (JWT, etc).
It just allows you to rewrite the lookup tables that the stock ECU uses.
An EPROM is a flashable memory chip that you can write to.
Same basic principle, but the stock ECU is fairly limited. They are writing more features into it, it’s just going to take time for the endusuers to start dicking around with it and figuring it out.
Same thing happened with MS when it first came out. Now it can do zillions of things from soft rev limit, no lift shift, N2O control, traction/launch control, etc etc etc.
Provided you can make it work.
Nissan CAS works fine for triggering if you have a distributor.
For COP (Coil on plug) like the SR, the CAS works with a little love.
Thats all I’ll say.
Andrew.
people who Can’t tuen and won’t take the time to learn should NOT be commenting on how good or bad the product is… you don’t know how to use it, your opinion is one that is lacking in ANY credibility… 200, from the mean street ‘pic’ it seems you work in that shop… your saying that NO one there has a clue how to tune… ?? 'tuner shop… can’t tune …??
This product, (MS), requires the ‘tunner’ to be able to do the math and understand the complete combustion engine system and sub systems… this is not an AEM, electromotive or haltech, this is hard core tunning… the OPEN source is the greatest part of the product … it allows complete and total access to Everything you could possibley want to do with a standalone… IF you know what your doing… apparently most of these comments like not being able to get it to work with the CAS on the SR. Ignition is VERY doable, there are at least 3 ways beyond the SR CAS to do it with MSns-e. A rotary is even doable.
There ARE people with the smarts to tune this out there… you just need to find them and work with them on the product… However if you plan to find the cheapest route to get to your final product… the the system will only be as good as the worst part. You getting antsy about $700 for a full standalone repalcement system; built, installed & tunned… maybe you didn’t notice that the bulk of the pricing for standalones is in the $1300+ and up range for even the most basic self tunable system , not including install and wiring.
See what Phil???
ya I think I will probbly stick with the MS becasue I have someone that knows the system so build it and install it. so all I need to do is find someone that can tune her.
Been soon – a word of advice.
If you plan on going standalone I would not be so set on taking a hands-off approach.
Driving a car with a standalone is not like driving a stock ECU’d car. The tune is never 100% perfect and the more you drive your car the more you realise you’d like to make some changes to the way it behaves or runs. Yes - you may have had it tuned but this was on one day under a very unique set of circumatances. Driving on the road is quite different.
This is the added value of a standalone vs. any other option…but if you really don’t know what’s going on you will not be in a position to “tune” the car to your liking.
ya, but also you have to learm some how, how will i evert get to actually learn if I never do it. I can read all day long on the internet and manuals but untill I have the hands on experence i really do not know what I am doing.
I do know you are trying to help Happy and I really do thank you for that.