These rod ends are made for harsher conditions than a street car…
but if you dont feel comfortable with it then stick with the steel ones
Well I don’t know much about aluminum… they look a lot nicer that’s for sure. But how do the threads hold up? How much torque can they take? The threads in the RUCA iself are steel, right?
Having them in use on aircraft is one thing, but they aren’t exposed to the elements quite like a car.
true enough…
they will not corrode and are lighter, that is the benefit.
i cant answer all the wonderful tech questions people have because i r not teh engineer…
if it makes you nervous, stick with steel
too bad the threads will shear way before the steel would even be put under medium loading… pretty, but a bad design. At minimum you should have a thread diameter that’s at least 4mm more and be using a modified ACME thread for strength…
If QA1 uses them on their dirt track cars… i am sure they will be fine.
if not… look out for sasha…lolthe rod ends are 5/8" which is equivalent to the largest rod ends being used for multi-link anywhere, with the exception of tension rods which often see 3/4" rod ends…
you know what, i think i detected a hint of compliment in that post
yup, there is was.
and since you didnt mention the steel rod ends i am assuming you dont have a problem with them.
if you dont find more flaws and argue about them you are wont be living up to your reputation…ok GO!
what suspension type does this QA1 use? different systems will cause very different loading characteristics.
But hey whatever, if you want to say that aluminum is stronger in shear and tensile then steel you go ahead, personally I know better.
These are rod ends, they are not bolts. There is no shear load on these things. The load is all in-line with the arms, there is no axial loading to speak of (very minor but irrelivent), unless you set the car on a curb in which case you are going to break whatever the material is.
I just got off the phone with QA1 and asked my contacts specifically about what applications they use these ends for.
the Aluminum versions are manufactured almost specifically for competition-level dirt-track multi-link suspensions and steering linkages, or at least that is where they are most often used.
They will see far greater stress during competition than you will be putting on them on the street… but if you still dont like it… go with steel.
Also, the facility that builds this stuff for me was actually surprised that i would even offer the steel adjuster after we developed the aluminum one.
i guess people with successful automotive fabrication companies just dont agree with Ian. I wonder how that could possibly be.
They don’t seem quite as dangerous as I first thought they might be. What exactly is QA1? Are they a safety standards org or something?
P.S. the rest of that stuff may be better addressed in the Admin section.
QA1 is one of the biggest north american racing products companies with a focus specifically on suspension.
they own various suspension companies and produce dampers in every form from monotube, deflective disc, twin tube etc. in all kinds of materials including Aluminum
they produce Springs and are the authority for automotive rod end applications.
they are located in Minnesota and produce some of the highest quality suspension products for domestics, dirt-track, circle-track, drag, street-rods etc. etc.
they are ISO9001 certified
everything that is in stock is currently spoken for
i have placed another stocking order slated for mid to late next week availability.
Just got off the phone with the fabrication facility, i requested steel adjusters because bob and ian have people all scared.
They scoffed at me when i said people were afraid that the rod end and adjuster would just rip right off.
either way, the steel ones are coming and aluminum will be special order only i guess. Even though most most of the people i talk to want aluminum
the part numbers i am using are as follows
aluminum rod ends are:
AMR10H (H stands for heavy duty because i would never cheap out on a rod end)
these rod ends have load ratings of 19,300lbs and are 5/8" shank and 5/8" bore
the steel ones are XM(R or L)10
when you go with a 10-12 you mismatch the shank and bore or something like that… never tried so i dont know.
i have 3/4" ones in stock for the TC rods as mentioned CMR10T = 15,894 lbs or something…
my arguement is that the most common failure with these arms is the rod ends, so i have the best.
plus, all other RUCA’s use a threaded adapter adjuster which places the lug of the arm further and further away from the centre of the rod end, as seen here:
adapter is here:
in my opinion this is not a good idea and i am sure you will agree with me on that.
evne from a non-engineering standpoint it exposes the weakest parts of the arm, the rod ends and the adjuster. the rod end isnt even inside the arm at that point. so the spec of the material becomes less meaningfull.
Even more importantly is that the rod ends on those arms are non-rust-coated, 12mm, coarse thread rod ends for industrial rather than automotive applications.
my arms are longer and you adjust it from behind, turnbuckle style. This puts the actual arm closer to the rod end and keeps the rod end inside the arm.
i am sure if you had the side loading you speak off that my arm would hold up better.
plus, as titan has experienced here:
http://www.son240sx.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20185&highlight=rod
corrosion is a big issue.
aluminum hardware eliminates that fact.
also, i was at the shop again today and continued to raise your concern once again i was advised that the 6061 billet aluminum will stand up to shear force in excess of some 20,000lbs per square inch or something… iono we were talking about a lot.
your concerns in a general sense about aluminum being weaker are true, but these rod ends, the H series of the AM series are bigger than the steel ones. As mentioned they have added cross sectional thickness to counter the properties of aluminum (read: relative to the steel ends in this case)
the notion that i need to test how much shear force this will take is irrelevant. the rod ends have been tested by QA1, who is ISO9000 as mentioned, if i were to conduct the proper testing i would have wasted my time because i would come up with the same number as QA1 did.
The fact that these rod ends are used in competition and produced specifically for the purposes i am using it for should eliminate those concerns…
By day i work for a family-owned food procesing firm. When we, in conjunction with a client like Maple Lodge, are bringing a new product through we do not RETEST whether Soy is an allergen this time around… Soy IS an allergen, the testing has been done. there is no need to test it again.
if we invented the rod end then yeah we should test it for static load… but we didnt invent it
i am sure bob will come up with something to argue here because it is a touchy subject but needless to say, putting stronger materials on a design that is not materially (read: significantly) different from others that have proven successful is testing enough.
i have run lesser rod ends in my suspension, including custom made TC rods with no problem for over a year, as seen here:
http://bings.ca/images/frontsuspension1
those rod ends were only 5/8" CMR10, not teflon lined. load rated less than half of what we are looking at here and they were fine, not evne noisy. They even survived an accident where the wheel was struck so hard that the hardened steel portion of the arm broke before the rod end did. yay for QA1. Once again note that on the TC rods that i willbe releasing soon there will be 3/4" rod ends with load ratings that dwarf the ones used on the example above that proved successful for us already.
If i havent already quelled concerns about the aluminum and the fact that it WILL NOT shear right out of the adjuster, then how about this
Peak Performance is using aluminum in its toe and traction arms.
I am working on Aluminum arms as well, but for now i prefer to put the strength of 7/8" chromoly in to the toe and traction arms.
if an when the arms are available in aluminum it will be at least 1" OD
ever thought of puting rubber boots on the ends? to prevent rust from occuring?
I’m going to test the aluminum rod ends in every application bing puts them in, RUCAs for sure, traction and toe rods as well if bing decides so.
My car will be experiencing A LOT A LOT of lateral force being on 305s, and i promise you when they are up to temp and sliding there won’t be many cars that can put that much force on any of the rod ends without hitting a curb or tree or some other inanimate heavy object.
Now if they DO shear (which they wont, think about how much force 17,000lbs is - now think about how many different points it is distributed between) and i crash, well im gonna be pretty pissed at bing
I could see sliding into a curb at 40mph and hitting it square would cause a rod end to shear, but normal cornering? Theres no way. Not even sliding. Think about it, 2g’s in an FR car, even if ALL the weight was on that ONE wheel, would only be 5000lbs. You’re telling me that 1/3rd the force is going to be fatiguing that part?
And who the HELL can reach 2g’s - all while having all 3 other wheels in the air. Just doesn’t happen.
only $hit rod ends need boots.
these rod ends are all self-sealing, nothing can get inside.
the boots are to prevent dirt and other particles from getting inside the liner and wearing away at the teflon lining which in most bearing is just a piece of telfon tape.
these rod ends have full kevlar teflon linings pressed into them in the United States. the linings cannot pounds out or wear away.
dust boots are not necessary
Derek special requested these rod ends with urethane inserts in them so here they are.
i wont be stocking these rod ends regularly because they come from a totally different place. But nonetheless, here they are
this thread has bene edited down…
all nonsense was transferred to another thread and i have edited out all of the comments i made in posts that remain here so as to focus more on the products and less on the arguing.
if you are not comfortable with aluminum, go with steel rod ends
more pics of all the funky shit goin on here…
