why does everyone keep saying the union is negotiating for more money? fucking read. the UNION expected a cut. accepted the cut. AAM felt they could take it further and dragged it on.
If you base how much someone gets paid on the amount of physical labor they go through for their job, the world as we know it would be fucking retarded. Of course engineers/programmers etc should get paid more than labor monkey’s. Want to know why? Because it’s those engineers that are creating jobs for the labor monkey’s. If we didn’t have people with the skill level, and design capabilities, than first off laborers wouldn’t have a whole lot to do. And also, they’re jobs would be alot harder.
Engineering also goes into making jobs for the assembly lines and such easier.
I’m not saying that all engineers deserve their paycheck, but I’d say a much higher percentage of engineers contribute MUCH MUCH more to their company than your average assembly line workers.
oh and p.s. I worked for Toyota as a Press Operator, and also worked on the assembly line. I know the types of people I’m talking about. As do a lot of the people replying in this thread.
I’m surprised there is even people on the assembly lines anymore. That shit should have been automated a long long time ago.
Please pay the workers more they really deserve all the extra money to not do shit. I really appreciate a hard worker, but Union workers (in general) are complete fucking douche bags
See that i take offense to, lemme guess your one of those guys who see road crews standing around watching one person work and say oh must be union. Fact is there just fucking lazy or tired everyone has this image mainly from road crews because thats what they see but why dont you go shovel dirt or lay asphalt in 100 degree plus weather and see how often you need to take a break. Most union employees bust there ass cuz they know they are getting payed top dollar to do there job and if they dont want to there are 100s of people on the waiting list that would take there job in a heartbeat so they tend to not fuck off to much. Skilled labor unions and the UAW are worlds apart auto workers arent trained anymore they do one thing and hardly have to even think, while most union employees are top notch or they are weeded out rather quickly. Buisness owners tend to not give you to much room for error or lazyness when your costing them $40-$50 an hour if youre not making at least double that for the company youre gone.
Have been in and out of several plants for various reasons. Have spoken with management of several plants, have spoken with several Union workers. I have seen the functioning of small plants to huge plants.
I really don’t want to get into a discussion about Unions, they served their purpose in worker safety, but sometimes it just gets a little ridiculous.
edit: Seriously, I didn’t read half of what you wrote. One big fucking paragraph is completely terrible in form. Try breaking up your ideas into separate paragraphs or ideas. Thanks
edit2: I was speaking in general terms of the Auto industry unions.
I went on a tour of the tonawanda engine plant. the forklift guys were sitting on the forklifts reading the paper, everyone else was doing very unskilled fastening operations
i was wrong…UAW last week agreed to 14 and 17 dollars an hour for unskilled workers and 25 an hour to skilled workers plus closing the plant with in the next year. and the value of work that GM has pulled from AAM is now in excess of 160 million. The AAM plant here only sees revenues of around 150 million WITH some of the work GM pulled.
I cant fucking believe it. They will close and bury another fucking plant.
2 plants…here and detroit
You forgot the runoff plants. I’m on temp layoff now from Delphi.
14-17 dollars per hour is not alot of money.
In buffalo, its OK money, just enough to get by.
Anywhere else its nothing.
The bank I work for is bringing a ton of jobs here because buffalo is so “affordable” as the exec’s tell us.
That means people are standing in line to work 10 dollar an hour temp to perm jobs. And trust me they are, its sad.
because i went to school…
i know this. im not saying its good or bad money. i make a little more than the low end there. im doing pretty good for the time being. But these are pretty huge cuts for some of these guys. They definitely won’t be spending like they used to and that could be bad for other industries in the area.
Lol, if i had a dollar for all the so called “engineers” that sit on discusion forums all day long bitching about the union payed laborers. I myself am a laborer at a plant and wish i was in some sorta union. I barely crack 32k a year working a manditory 50hrs a week at a job that took over a year to train me on multiple heavy industrial machinery. I am a skilled laborer making shit because im considered a wrench monkey at my job.
but i stay because of excellant benefits and a wife that depends on me. Ive been trying very hard to get into some sorta union payed job so i can atleast earn a decent living for myself. Its very depressing. The sad part is im more capable/smarter then alot of engineers but because i didnt get that so called :engineering degree" im stuck.
competition for jobs in wny is rediculous and my 2year degree isnt even good enough to wipe my ass with.
its very depressing.
Just goto the appropriate union hall and sign up, youll have to take an apptitude test and will be put on a waiting list. It helps to know people and youd get in right away, but as soon as the winter breaks start calling and asking different companies if they are hiring, unless youre a minority it will take some effort but youll eventually be hired. Just make sure you apply as a pre apprentice not as a mechanic you will take a pay hit for the first year but you will have benifits. Once you get into the apprentiship you will be a valuable commodity, the way its setup anyone working a government job gets prevailing wage which is mechanic pay but if you are an apprentice they can keep paying you your lower wage and save alot of money since they are still billing you out at $100 an hour.
im sorry i should have been more clear, at least these $60k a year line workers are working all day long with something to do making their money, but as i stated about some lazy salary people i know, getting to sleep at work for the same amount is not good business either. im sure if they were hourly or paid by the project and completion time, it would be different. of course an employer is going to pay them more for the knowledge the person has.
all in all, back to the topic of the strike, we all know GM and all the supplying companies need to get their homework done, settle all the disputes and strikes and get back to making money and hopefully keep the jobs in the country where they belong and not in Mexico or Brazil, etc…
Where I work now, we have engineering schedules and deadlines that keep us very busy. As I’ve seen in many other companies.
Compare a lead guy in the shop, to a lead guy on the engineering side of things. I would bet 9 times out of 10 that the shop leader is doing a lot less.
For all you union worker haters… Not completely sober but here it goes…
Just remember that there is 9 run off workers for every 1 auto worker. Do the math. I don’t feel like doing the research but let’s say roughly 10,000 in WNY between GM, AAM, Delphi, Ford etc. (probably an underestimate). That would be approx. 100,000 families in WNY that rely on the US auto industry. Thats 100,000 that would’nt be able to afford the services that many people with degrees/skilled offer. If we keep taking hits we won’t be able to afford medical bills, a new roof on our house, an accountant, lawyer, meals at restaurants, many of the products or services that many nyspeeders offer. So everybody will suffer to a degree. Let’s not forget the tax hikes that you will be paying to support the welfare of familes that are scraping by.
Yes, unions do protect the lazy. That is their job to protect every member. But look at the pros. If these huge corporations had their way we’d all be making 8/hr. Trust me that is what they want. If I wasn’t a union worker I’d be working 2 full time jobs to survive. Instead my job has givin me the opportunity to start school at the age of 22. Without it I’d be a loser for my whole life. Also AAM is a profitable company, they are trying to open up shop overseas to take advantage of cheap labor and be even more profitable. The UAW is just trying to protect American jobs. You’d do the same.
I do agree that 28/hr is ridiculous but 15/hr with benefits (what I make now) ISN’T! At Delphi we have took a %50 pay cut to keep our jobs. We are now considered low class earners. What more can we give?
Everybody in America will take a hit if/when the US auto industry goes down. The union is here to keep us working. Hands down. Production is what made the country number one and it is production that will make China number one in coming decades.
Please look deeper before you bash us. And if you are envious of union workers than you may apply at Delphi. They will be hiring when the AAM strike is over. But if you have no intentions of applying then you must have a better job. But if you don’t then keep the comments to yourself.
Hey Xtc How many people from Delphi are coming over when They open the doors at tonawanda this summer?I’m pretty sure most of Lockport will sign up.
D
I’m sure everybody that is entitled to flowbacks has already filled out the paper work. The waiting list is huge if you consider all the plants with legacy workers. Power train won’t be able to take them all on.