Proper way to drive a manual...

NYSpeed Automotive
81

Ya, I was hoping to clear all the confusion up, but it doesn’t seem to help much.

However, summary.

When coming to a stop at a light, Shift to neutral and sit on the brake until 1st gear is needed. (For the sake of skipping the argument, I’ll just say it’s easier to put the car in neutral and coast down, instead of continually downshifting)

Rev match when possible.

When skipping a gear (3rd to 5th), move the shifter from 3rd -> 4th… Pause for a moment in 4th, then move the shifter to 5th and release the clutch as normal.

Anyone have any suggestions as far as Backing up/going through a parking lot w/ a Cam and not riding the clutch?
Any time I’m under 10mph in 1st the car jumps and bounces around. Once I get above that, or put a decent amount of gas on it, it will stop.
Typically I’ve been Speeding up to ~12 or so… then let it coast down until it gets rough, put the clutch all the way in, wait until it gets down to about 5 or so… Then speed up w/ no clutch to about 12 again… then coast back down and repeat…
There were things saying about switching to neutral and 1st, or neutral and reverse. Which I suppose I could do, instead of letting it coast down with my foot on the clutch, put it in neutral after I speed up… then switch back in to first when needed, then back to neutral…

More tricky with reverse though, since reverse is a PITA to get in to.

82

doing some reading on wikipedia now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

What happens inside the engine:

When a driver lifts off the throttle pedal while the vehicle is in motion, the engine converts energy from the vehicle’s speed, which is kinetic energy, into a temperature increase in the fuel-air mixture. These hot gases are exhausted from the vehicle and heat is transferred from engine components to the air.

DISADVANTAGES:

Engine braking beyond normal engine drag (i.e., down-shifting to a lower gear, without increasing throttle input) can increase the cost of owning and operating a vehicle:

Braking forces are applied to the engine and driveline components, although forces are generally less than those created when running the motor near peak power.

By substantially increasing engine RPM in a gasoline engine, it can cause additional fuel consumption, even with a fully released throttle, in cars without overrun fuel shutoffs.

Unmuffled engine braking can be extremely noisy and is prohibited by many municipalities in urban areas for this reason.

Other notes:

Use of engine braking will transfer heat buildup from brake components to the engine, which already has a system to dissipate excess heat energy

Active use of engine braking (shifting into a lower gear) is only advantageous when it is necessary to control speed while driving down very steep and long slopes. It should be applied before regular disk or drum brakes have been used, leaving the brakes available to make emergency stops.

Improper engine braking technique can cause the wheels to skid (also called shift-locking), especially on slippery surfaces such as ice or snow, as a result of too much deceleration.

ALL TAKEN FROM WIKIPEDIA

83

engine braking is not good for the motor plain and simple, it puts stress force on the pistons in a way they are not intended to handle

brakes are cheaper then engines plain and simple

using the engine while coasting down is different from engine breaking and promotes better gas mileage but still isnt exactly good for the engine

84

using the engine while coasting down is NOT different from engine braking.

As stated before, if you are not rev-matching into that gear, you are probably doing clutch damage.

85

it all depends on the load, i consider engine braking to be a high load to actually slow the car down, depending on the compression of the motor is how it will slow down, while being in 2nd gear coasting to a stop is a lot less load on the pistons/sleaves than would be in first gear etc etc

86

Of course it is going to load the engine, but I think the general consensus is that compared to going WOT at high rpms, it’s nothing to worry about.

87

Quit being a fag here and just listen to yourself.

My scenario was based on conditions where 70% of your braking force would be applied to your steering wheels… which in snow could cause a skid… which, if you shifted from 67mph into 2nd gear @ 8k WOULD LOCK UP THE BACK TIRES … or else it wouldn’t be engine braking, it would be rev matching without slowing down… or “coasting down” as you call it…

Your “coasting down” IS ENGINE BRAKING. If you put it into 2nd @ 67 and left the clutch pedal in… that would be coasting, if your motor is trying to attain an idle rpm and it is directly linked to your drive tires ( clutch engaged ) your engine is braking.

During engine braking you’re also applying loads to your drivetrain it wouldn’t normally experience in FORWARD MOVEMENT… it is like revving your vehicle to 8k in REVERSE… so all of your suspension and driveline components that are engineered to perform better in 1-6 than in R will be flexing/moving in the opposite direction with loads they were not “designed for”.

Hass - Riding the clutch like a fucking moron will break your car. Riding your clutch properly (a safe combination of throttle and clutch release) will result in a smooth start no matter what cam you have. The main ingredient to riding a clutch properly and still having chatter or a shaky start is clutch material and style. Nobody “pops” the clutch from a stop with minimal throttle input. Popping the clutch with lots of throttle is a burnout/clutch dump. Idle engine speeds with a soft clutch foot will result in safe forward movement with minimal wear on your clutch. The better/sooner you find the point where your clutch is grabbing and where it is completely engaged and the quicker you can manipulate the throttle at that point will determine how quickly and smoothly you can roll your car out from a stop.

88

The transmission part is really where I do not trust engine braking. I do believe that the engine stresses are most negligible.

Jack, any substantial proof that it is bad for the transmission? Otherwise, a lot of this is just hear-say

89

you guy are missing how bad it is on the disk too. it beats the fuck out of the spings on a spung hub…

Just do what I do, dump it off the limiter, pull gear when the shift light hits, dont let off the gas :slight_smile:

mike raised it to 7400 the other day

90

I said motor or transmission only because by not engine braking, the motor and transmission are idiling and not in gear.

By engine braking you’re applying additional stress to both components (not really an argument but a fact), opposite of what they were designed to do. You’re turning the pinion, drive shaft, output shaft, everything in the transmission, input shaft, clutch, flywheel and then your engine from the tires… instead of spinning it all from the crank from a combustion stroke like it was designed to do.

Engine Braking theory/practice is not hear-say… it is something I’ve been doing since I was about 10 and something I began researching deeply since I bought my diesel tow-rig a while ago.

What do you mean you don’t trust engine braking?

91

Exactly. Even though you’re rev-matching… your essentially using your clutch material in place of your brake pads.

92

rev matching should be fine, the clutch wouldn’t know what speed to car was going. I was referring to being worried about the motor for engine braking? talking about the pistons, and compression of the motor??? wtf , stresses on the pistons??? the sleEves really???

edit. I should have quoted alpha earl

“depending on the compression of the motor is how it will slow down, while being in 2nd gear coasting to a stop is a lot less load on the pistons/sleaves than would be in first gear etc etc”

93

In theory no… Everything spins at the same rpm and contacts causing no wear to the clutch. Or course that is an ideal situation. And a driver isn’t perfect everytime.

94

The fact of the matter is… that no matter how good you or I am at rev matching… by using the clutch to engine brake is more stress than not using it.

:grouphug:

95

haha the more back into this thread the better it gets. classic

96

This thread is hilarious.

97

yeah… what he said.

:mamoru:

98

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT WIKIPEDIA ENTRY

That is the most fucked up thing I’ve ever read. Is that for real?

99

Jack and studderin, you haven’t brought anything better than anyone else to the table.

No facts to back up claims of added stress to components of the transmission.

wikipedia is user edited information, so that information MIGHT not be completely true.

I am still not convinced that there are or aren’t any added stresses to the transmisison/engine during engine braking.

100

There isn’t, and if there are, they’re negligible. There might be a study somewhere but the fact that everyone who drives a manual vehicle does it, its probably considered wear and tear.

If you clutch in every time you apply the brakes, you’re doing yourself a disservice to driving a manual vehicle and you’re causing increased wear on the clutch and clutch hydraulic/cable system. You’re also losing gas mileage because it takes fuel to maintain idle, and a engine in decel does not.

Engine brake, or don’t. Fuck it.