Public Education System

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101

No, not all are milking the system, but raising taxes even more to give the money to schools who’s parents don’t care, who’s kid’s don’t care, that’s just as bad as milking the system. Lets not call it milking, lets just call it taking up space. You sit there, in the system, letting it keep you afloat, but doing nothing to get out on your own. And you raise a litter of children with the same corrupt morals and non-existant work ethic you have.

If you did something to cut these people out of the system, by FORCING them to take responsibility, there would be more than enough money available to help the people who want to be responsible but just need someone to reach down and give them a little help crawling up from where they are.

102

Amen!?

103

Actually, id be willing to bet that dollar for dollar, way more money is wasted by charities than the education system. All of that money you supposedly gave would be for naught without a public education system, because

def sounds like the kids whose parents give a shit enough to fork over tens of thousands to put them through school. By your logic, shouldnt you be executing them instead of helping them survive? They don’t sound qualified to exist.

104

It’s a sticky situtation…you could kick failing students out of school sure, but that doesn’t benefit anyone. Maybe it’ll be a wake up call…that’s fine with me so long as you let them back in after community service or something.

Like I said before, we should pump up funding for Social Services so they can have the tools to crack down on dangerously bad parents.

We need to put bad parents in jail…but not to the point of destroying a life, and it can’t be a felony because it’s counterproductive to punish them for being bad parents and then HUGELY impact their ability to provide and be a good parent. I think a 5-20 year spread w/ hearings for release after 2.

That’s fine, yes let’s do that. But let’s also make sure that those who are in school are getting the best education. Kids who graduate highschool IMO should have the education level of someone who has graduated from any 2-year college…at least.

Where have I said the solution is to raise taxes? I said to spend more on education…

105

Clearly it is the same case with public schools.

106

Yes, but that’s more of the fairy tale land talk right there. It’s Elliott Spitzer in a nutshell really. I want to increase funding for this, that and the other thing, but cut taxes too. It sounds great, and stupid people buy into it, but you need only look at history to see what happens. The spend part happens, there is a shortfall, and taxes go up to make up for it.

You want to take all the money we’re dumping in Iraq and put it toward education, fine by me. Show me a real plan on how to get out of there that won’t result in us just going back in five years when it’s ten times worse and I’ll vote for it. And please don’t give me, “well I wouldn’t be there in the first place”. Both our parties voted to go, so we’re both responsible for getting out. Even regardless that fact, you can’t change the past. Getting up there like Hillary and John and saying, “I want a timetable for leaving” doesn’t solve the problem.

But, lets get back to the simple fact that no one is addressing… Buffalo already spends more per child than Williamsville. We’re talking about exact opposite ends of the spectrum there; the number one school in the county, vs the dead last school in the county. So what makes you think more money is the answer? Shouldn’t we first audit the system and find out why they aren’t able to produce bright young minds with the same or more money being invested per child? Because lets face, every dollar spent on education is just that, an investment. We’re spending money betting that by making these kids smart they’ll grow up and put more into the system than we put into them.

Or, to put it another way, lets say I own two companies that both produce tires. Company A spends $100 per tire, and cranks out a great product. Company B is spending $150 per tire, and their tires are constantly delaminating, don’t grip well, and are just generally poor. Would it be a smart business plan for me to simply say, “Well, Company B just needs more money. If I give them $200 a tire maybe it will get better”? Of course not, I’d go in and look at what the hell is going on at Company B. Maybe Company B’s union is costing me too much, so of that $100 a tire only $25 is actually going into the tire, the rest is lining the pockets of the employees. Maybe Company B is getting a inferior raw materials, so unless I go to the supplier and get them to straighten up, I’m never going to get a good tire. Maybe Company B’s employees simply don’t give a shit, and figure they’re guaranteed a job so why bother trying harder. Probably it’s a big combination of all of the above, but I can guarantee that dumping more money in won’t solve anything, just like when your “business” is taking uneducated kids and turning them into smart ones.

107

We can cut spending from elsewhere…but more importantly we can revamp tons of our federal departments to make them more efficient. I wouldn’t mind deficit spending in the SHORT term to reorganize as long as there’s solid evidence that we’ll get a surplus to pay for it within 10 years. If we can’t do that a temporary raise in taxes (or cut to major programs like the defense budget) to pay for the re-organization is necessary. Shit let’s really crack down on pork spending. Because with a more educated voting public, candidates serious about improving america wont need stupid pork local projects to get elected.

First, I don’t want to spend the money we’re spending in Iraq on education, I was just showing what that ammount of money can buy. Why don’t I want to spend this money? Because we don’t have it to spend.

Secondly, I like Bidens ideas on Iraq. At the same time we can use your arguments in this thread in Iraq…let’s FORCE them to be responsible.

Yes, absolutely…but at the end of the day, I think schools might still be underfunded. The model for public schools should be the BEST private schools in the country.

As for unions, like I said before teachers shouldn’t need a union…we should pay them so much and give them so many benefits they should never have to worry.

Education is everything. We don’t need little changes. We need gigantic monumental changes. Schools should be palaces. The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be making six-figure salaries.

108

I graduated high school in 03

109

I think the major problem of kids having developmental problems are mothers entering the workforce.

The boom of dual income families during the 80s could be the worst thing we have done for our children.

Unfortunately a kid has no control over this, so how does anybody justify treating them differently? I say this tongue in cheek, because I know that many teachers treat “intelligent” students much better than “ungifted” students.

110

I’m sorry, but it’s not the quantity of time mommy spends with junior, it’s the quality. Mommy can work 8-5 and be home 2 hours after junior. That leaves all evening + the weekends to make sure junior is doing his school work.

111

truth.

112

Who said school work?

We’re talking about developing a baby into a good kid who will in turn will be a child with ambition and integrity. We’re not talking about a mom MAKING a kid study, we’re talking about a mom who has been there along the way to create a child that understands that there are intrinsic rewards for good behaviour and negative consequences for poor behavior.

A good student doesn’t have to be watched over. :wink:

And why does this have to be all or most of the time? Consistent parenting is good parenting. You cannot create a child that understands rewards and consequences if it isn’t consistent. And daycares cannot provide a seemless, consistent system. There’s a ton more that goes with mother-child bonding. A TON. That’s why you can get your PhD in this…

edit: And what you said is exactly the type of thing a neglective mother says.

113

ooooh and this is from the APA

http://www.apa.org/releases/childcare.html

and this is from just some dude on the internet, so who knows how credible it is:

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=Zeroto3Years

Actually, it’s fairly accurate. Too much depth for this discussion, but a positive relationship between a mother and child helps with the development of the brain more than anybody wants to really admit. They want their big homes, their cars, their separate lives. They don’t want to think that their more lavish lifestyle may be detrimental to their kids. They don’t want to have to make sacrifices. People want to feel correct, so it won’t surprise me if you denounce these articles. Actually, I’ll more than expect it. :wink:

But I know in my heart of hearts that it is very important. It’s not some huge conspiracy against women in the workforce.

Have you seen mothers of children who can’t behave well? They’re horrible. Seldom do they hold their childs hand when walking in a parking lot or store–they let the child walk behind and hope they get run over or kidnapped. There is zero attatchment. The best thing for a child is quantity AND quality time with the mother. Since not too many people understand this, the quality of students isn’t going to improve. The education system isn’t going to be much help, and the students who had proper parenting all along and not just some of the time are going to do better.

114

And your reasoning is the exact reason kids are the mess they are today. Nothing is their fault, it was because mommy wasn’t home enough. Guess what, I’m from a single parent home, where of course my mom worked. But she still found the time instill that ambition and integrity in me that you say she can’t because she worked. The problem is there are too many parents who didn’t want a kid, and don’t make time for a kid, who look to blame anything but themselves when their kid doesn’t turn out right.

Wow, I just saw your edit, now there’s a contradition. So the lavish homes and rich parents are now the reason the kids are failing. Earlier I thought it was because they were poor and living in the cities. Guess it boils down to parents who don’t care and refuse to make time for their kids can screw them up regardless of income levels, the point I’ve been trying to make all along.

115

Truth. We’d have to agree on the cuts, but I believe there is plenty to be cut we could agree on.

I missed Bidens arguement, and don’t have time to look it up because I need to get back to doing some consulting work so the government can tax the shit out of me to pay for all the unwanted kids to get a better education that they’re not going to use.

No arguement here, but you have to find the money to do it somewhere. We’re already taxed too much, especially in this state.

116

see we can agree on what needs to be done…now we just need to figure out how to do it…

damn that hard work that i’ve never done a day in my life :roll:

117

Exactly. And how do we do this consistently without giving up a few years of one parents career?

Oooooh. It’s difficult to do. I don’t buy quantity versus quality. Mothers who don’t spend time with their children because they can’t are different from mothers who don’t spend time with their children because they don’t want to give up 4 years of their careers. Something is still better than everything: a lot of GOOD time together. It’s not always possible, but it’s one of the many reasons why people are very different from eachother…

Snap. There’s so much that influences a kid that they really don’t control. It’s really hard to change somebody by the time they get to be older. Edit: OLDER and understand their education is important to the type of life they will have in the future.

118

The only comment I have on this without reading the whole thread is this.

Uniforms.

119

uniforms will not solve this problem. It solves other ones though.

120

I think dress codes are better than uniforms…self expression is a good thing in the classroom