attut, you ever sat in a cj, yj or tj jeep?
oem…
nice work on the chasis tho.
#1… if a Cage is as “dangerous” as you say then the MTO would not allow them in Daily Driven Vehiches… but wait a minute, they do! so they must not feel its a real issue
#2… a Roll Cage is suppose to be designed so that it DOES NOT come in contact with your head and any wear which MAY come in contact with your head MUST be padded with a flame retardant foam
#3… a Cage is quite simple to make if A. you have an Internal Mandrel Tube Bender and B. Actually know what your doing…
#4… If you are going to Bings meet for the 11th & 12th then you can see my Cage in my S13 with your own eyes and witness how its impossible for your head to come in contact with any of the Bars
#5… I actually have an Internal Mandrel Tube Bender and actually make Cages for the Targa Newfound Rally so I’m sure I know a bit more in regards to their design and safety requirements over you (no offense at all)
fix your sig.
not a problem…
A roll cage for most people is confined to the cabin area, an area that does not include the crumple zones you speak of, the cabin is actually designed as the ‘safe zone’ an area where there suppose to be no intrusion, hence the developemnt of the front a rear saftey zones. A cage in the cabin of a street car will not transmit anything to the driver beyond what he would see without it, the drivers momentum at the point of impact is independent of the vehicles up to the point where in car saftey systems come into play. ( seat belt, air bag, side bolster on the seat or steering wheel… ). adding a proper cage will stiffen the cabin area ( which does need to be blaanced both aft and fore of the cage ), and provide an added saftey zone layer ( crush and intrusion) independant of the cars frame.
The items I’m speaking of in regards to options besides spot welding are foaming and rivets. If you’d like more info then try a search of SON as I’ve spoken on this toipc last year or come by and see me, I can show you some examples of the process and why it’s more often then not a better chioce then welding…
ok everyone missd my point, lets say your in a rollover in a car with a roll cage, and your not waer a helmet, everyone should know that a seat belt does not keep you in the exact place you sit, if your rolling over your but will be moved from its current spot, and your head will swing around, and if you whack your head off your rool cage and split your head open cuz you not wearing a helmet, well then that roll cage has just been proven unsafe and dangerous. and if you have a fully built cage that extends into the front of the cabin, ie, a bar that comes down across the dorr, and you get t-boned doing some daily driving (in which i’m 110% sure if yyour daily driving you wont be wearing a helmet), not only do you have the door and a and/or b pillar closing in on you, you now have the roll cage bars coming at you, and i garuantee that if your t-boned that roll cage will bend. and cages can also negatively impact many of the safety features found on your car, such as seat belts and airbags. airbags are designed to work within a fixed amount of space and cannot account for the intrusion of the roll cage. (refering to an s14 in that staement or any other car that has air bags really). the roll cage could even prevent the deployment of the airbag if it were poorly designed.
yes i have sat one of those mentioned. but lets face you not ganna take a jeep to the track, your also probably not going to add any kinda of roll cage to it to try and stiffen the chassis.
my previous statements were more of a daily driving vs. track/drifting. and i think everything was kinda taken outta proportion. as for the crumplezones when your in a front or rear end accident they come first, now if the accident is serious enough, they will crumple but the force maybe greater than to stop at the crumple zones pushint lets say the rear seat area more forward into the front seat area. i guess i’m looking at everything from a servrity concept. like i was in an accident that was pretty bad, i was in the pass. side of a tempo and we were hit by a truck, nothing really big either, and it hit the front pass. side and there was damage all the way to the rear even though truck didnt touch the rear, my legs were squashed, and i smacked my head off the window, b-pillar, and roof line.
ok i found a pic of the sort of thing i’m refering to
now this what i mean by daily driven vs. track your not gonna drive that every day are you? this i s why i feel its more practical to do some sort of sea or stitch welding. now tell me if you were in an accident in that car without a helmet that there is not chance that your head will make contact. and this is aslo a properly engineered roll cage.
i was pretty sure you werent allowed to have a cage on a street car… maybe that was just insurance companies though
i was pretty sure you werent allowed to have a cage on a street car… maybe that was just insurance companies though[/quote]
MTO will allow you to have a Cage… nothing illegal about having one in a daily driven car
Insurance however is a totally different issue and 95% of the time they will not Insure you if you have a caged car. In my cases however I told my broker that my car is caged strickly as a “Promotional Item” for our Business and on top of that my Setup is removeable so it will not always be in the Vehicle (I told him I’ll just bolt it in for Shows and Meets so I can show it off and hand out Business Cards)
However… 1 Gentlemen I deal with whom goes out to Newfoundland every year for the Rally has a completely modified 911 which is completely Caged (and welded in Solid) but because hes like 40, has a clean record etc etc, they will Insure him with that car on the road no questions ask…
When you add a Roll Cage to a car or ANY vehicle which did not come stock with it (like a Jeep for example) the Insurance company AUTOMATICLY contribute it to Racing (whether Street Racing, Off Road Racing or say a Solo1 Event) which is why they will not Insure people with cages… They do “do a degree” realize its safer but they more so look at as “we feel safer… so we’re gonna drive faster”
i was pretty sure you werent allowed to have a cage on a street car… maybe that was just insurance companies though[/quote]
there are rules about it if you look in the HTA, and you cannot insure a car with an aftermarket roll cage.
atutt dont worry about most people on son, the majority of them have no idea what they are talking about but post as if they do so just take it with a grain of salt (BAS im not making reference to you in this one instance since your posts are actually lagitimate for once.)
I would like to point out the fact that, that Cage setup is what appears to be a (10-12pt Setup) which is what is required when your Vehicle does like 11 seconds in a 1/4 mile run…
A Simple 4-6 pt or even 8pt Cage is NOTHING along that line and is alot more practical for a Road Application…
Yea it states you cannot just add bars and you must have it of “proper build” meaning if you take it to mosport in T.O their tech guys can sign off saying its been built proper… you then take that to the MTO and all the MTO asks is…
can you get in and outta the car ?
are their any bars blocking your vision out windows/mirrors
can you still roll down the window…
as long as it meets those requirements the MTO will then sign off that the cage is legal
ummm if you’ve sat in a jeep you know they have cages…
and if a cage wasnt safe in a car…porshe wouldnt be putting them factory in there new gt3’s…
just like everything, there is the safe and proper way to do things…then there is the idiots way…
right outta the HTA…
a) requiring the use or incorporation of any device or any equipment, in or on any vehicle or any class of vehicle, that may affect the safe operation of the vehicle on the highway or that may reduce or prevent injury to persons using the highway, and prescribing the specifications and regulating the installation thereof;
(b) designating devices and designating an organization to test and mark its approval of any device so designated, and prohibiting the incorporation or use in or on a vehicle of any device so designated that is not marked as approved by the testing organization;
so… like I said, if you take the Car to Mosport, have the Tech guys inspect the Cage to ensure its of Proper Build, Proper Material etc etc they will then sign off saying its Approved
porsche / bmw / mercedes / etc. also have blue HID headlights that are illegal according to the HTA.
sr20’s are illegal according to the hta…so is your mom…bla bla bla.
site the number in the hta or it’s all HEARSAY.
this is just like all the idiots that tell me i need a RHD sticker on my car, do you actually read the HTA?
Can all you guys stop bitching.
Also I took more pics but theyre on my friends camera so I’m waiting for him to upload them. It’s a side shot with the wheel and shock out.
sr20’s are illegal according to the hta…so is your mom…bla bla bla.
site the number in the hta or it’s all HEARSAY.
this is just like all the idiots that tell me i need a RHD sticker on my car, do you actually read the HTA?[/quote]
word.
provide section numbers; otherwise never quote the hta or refer to hta illegal this or hta illegal that (when referring to not-so-obvious things)
In regards to your blind exlanation of cages being dangerous. Tell me, what is the difference between hitting your head on the A-pillar, steering wheel, window or padded cage. The padded cage is probaby softer.
Not to mention, if you do get in a bad accident u won’t find your door in ur lap, nor your feet crushed, and if you roll, guess what u won’t need a back brace for the rest of your life.
You can hit your head on just as many things without a cage. So does that mean we should all wear helmets on the street. I could get into seat mounting and how dangerous stock seats are but I’ll leave that for another day.
I’d take my chances with the cage :lol:
On the note of flux core welders. They suck ass for anything besides exhaust work, IC piping and other minor things. Tac’s do add heat to the metal. If you arn’t adding heat, tell me how u are getting any penetration into the metal. If you are getting shitty penetraion your better off using rivets. And with the paper thin metal the 240 is made out of, your defintely getting the metal nice and hot.
Also, there are alot of impurities in flux core welds. I’ve welded with both gas and flux. Once you use gas, its like night and day.
I’m just pointing certain points out, so don’t get angry.
Andrew.
how many people actually put disgusting foam padding around their roll cage in a street car? exacally.
if you look at the stock steering wheel it is very soft and bends very easily since its ment to flex in a accident. The a pillar has plastic covering the metal underneath so you dont crack your head open, and i dont know about you but i would rather have my head go threw a very thin side window than into a steel peice of piping that wont shatter…
cages are safe in a street car usually if you have a good seat or a race seat with a proper harness or seatbelt.