Sooo lets say you dont like the war in iraq..

anddd you protest… ZING

Emperor George can take your stuff :slight_smile:

[quote="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html

"]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/imgs/wh_banner.jpg[RIGHT]PRESIDENT | VICE PRESIDENT | FIRST LADY | MRS. CHENEY | NEWS[/RIGHT]

[RIGHT]Your Government | History & Tours | Kids | E-mail | En Español[/RIGHT]
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
July 17, 2007
Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq

http://www.whitehouse.gov/imgs/release_tools_icons_rss.gif White House News

http://www.whitehouse.gov/imgs/icon_release_infocus.gif Message to the Congress of the United States Regarding International Emergency Economic Powers Act

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)(IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)(NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,
I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that, due to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by acts of violence threatening the peace and stability of Iraq and undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, it is in the interests of the United States to take additional steps with respect to the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, and expanded in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004. I hereby order:
Section 1. (a) Except to the extent provided in section 203(b)(1), (3), and (4) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(1), (3), and (4)), or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted prior to the date of this order, all property and interests in property of the following persons, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons, are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported,
withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in: any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense,
(i) to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of:
(A) threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq; or
(B) undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people;
(ii) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, logistical, or technical support for, or goods or services in support of, such an act or acts of violence or any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or
(iii) to be owned or controlled by, or to have acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order.
(b) The prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section include, but are not limited to, (i) the making of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order, and (ii) the
receipt of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services from any such person.
Sec. 2. (a) Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose
of evading or avoiding, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.
(b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.
Sec. 3. For purposes of this order:
(a) the term “person” means an individual or entity;
(b) the term “entity” means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization; and
© the term “United States person” means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.
Sec. 4. I hereby determine that the making of donations of the type specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 and expanded in Executive Order 13315, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by section 1 of this order.
Sec. 5. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that, because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets
instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render these measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 and expanded in Executive Order 13315, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to section 1(a) of this order.
Sec. 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including the promulgation of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this order. The Secretary of the Treasury may redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the United States Government, consistent with applicable law. All agencies of the United States Government are hereby directed to take all appropriate measures within their authority to carry out the provisions of this order and, where appropriate, to advise the Secretary of the Treasury in a timely manner of the measures taken.
Sec. 7. Nothing in this order is intended to affect the continued effectiveness of any rules, regulations, orders, licenses, or other forms of administrative action issued, taken, or continued in effect heretofore or hereafter under 31 C.F.R. chapter V, except as expressly terminated, modified, or suspended by or pursuant to this order.
Sec. 8. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right, benefit, or privilege, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, instrumentalities, or entities, its officers or employees, or any other person.
GEORGE W. BUSH

THE WHITE HOUSE, July 17, 2007.

[/quote]

You really need to learn to read legal papers.

This has nothing to do with protests.

[quote=“JayS,post:2,topic:32637"”]

You really need to learn to read legal papers.

This has nothing to do with protests.

[/quote]

I’m not a lawyer but I think the big thing is that this is open to interpretation. No where does it define what threatening the peace and stability of Iraq is.

If you protest, you could be seen as threatening peace/stability because your protesting could lead to someone not joining the military who otherwise would.

This is the problem with being vague .

So if the Secretaries of Treasury, Defense, and State get together and determine that you have or are going to, or have anything to do with someone who has or is going to, commit an act of violence against Iraqi stability: They freeze your assets.

It specifies acts of violence.

protest = nonviolent

I don’t see where it says threatening the peace by comitting and act or acts of violence, or help someone commit such act.

There is no interpretation needed there. Protesting <> act of violence to destabilize Iraq.

I don’t see the problem. People are giving their lives trying to stabilize that country. If you’re planning violence against them, or helping someone do it, the government should take everything you own and lock you up forever.

Right, and this is an appropriate place for U.S. Border patrol to set up a road block and conduct vehicle searches…

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ferguson+Rd,+Antwerp,+St+Lawrence,+New+York+13608,+United+States&sll=42.508552,-78.667603&sspn=1.793828,3.735352&ie=UTF8&cd=1&mpnum=0&ll=44.45731,-75.522766&spn=0.868458,1.867676&z=9&om=1

Actually the road block they set-up is on RT 11, but this is a close approximation. It is about 35 miles from the 1,000 bridge and 40 miles from the Ogdensburg bridge. Basically the equivalent of border patrol doing stops in Batavia.

Fuck Bush, Fuck Homeland Security, I want my freedoms back.

[quote=“JayS,post:5,topic:32637"”]

There is no interpretation needed there. Protesting <> act of violence to destabilize Iraq.

[/quote]

[quote=“Locutus,post:3,topic:32637"”]

If you protest, you could be seen as threatening peace/stability because your protesting could lead to someone not joining the military who otherwise would.

This is the problem with being vague .

[/quote]

how many protesters have been arrested for just protesting? I dont want to get into an argument about the definition of the word protest, but reality speaking, the war has changed the way we live our lives and how the government uses these types of laws for “good reasons”… do i need to link you to the numerous of articles of the FBI abusing the patriot act?

And for the record, I’m not saying I’m for or against this executive order.

Its an order to promote people prevent uprisings and doing things directly against the war. Ie. Soldiers who refuse to fight.

Protesting the war isnt going to have an effect on the stability in Iraq

PS. Thank god I got a job offer in canada. cant wait to relocate.

[quote=“JayS,post:2,topic:32637"”]

You really need to learn to read legal papers.

This has nothing to do with protests.

[/quote]

Yes Jay, Im sure the government wont abuse this power at all. This administration has no record of EVER doing that. Take the blinders off man!

[quote=“fairgentleman Z,post:6,topic:32637"”]

Right, and this is an appropriate place for U.S. Border patrol to set up a road block and conduct vehicle searches…

Actually the road block they set-up is on RT 11, but this is a close approximation. It is about 35 miles from the 1,000 bridge and 40 miles from the Ogdensburg bridge. Basically the equivalent of border patrol doing stops in Batavia.

[/quote]

Do you have any idea the number of illegal aliens that come through the Akwesasne Mohawk Reservation on the US/Ontario border directly north of there? I have a pretty good idea. In high school I worked for a cab company on that reservation that had a little side business of transporting illegal aliens. Technically what we were doing wasn’t illegal, because we picked the people up after crossing the border and we were not required to ask for ID. But, if you got stopped and your passengers were taken and you were released, sometimes after several hours at customs. If this happened a lot, you weren’t asked to do any more of these very well paying fares. So you learned not to travel down 81/87, or get anywhere near a customs station.

So yeah, I can understand them putting up a road block there. Would have caught some of the guys I worked with. The smarter ones would have been talking to the truckers on the CB though and would have known about the road block long before they got there.

[quote=“ecoshardcore,post:9,topic:32637"”]

Yes Jay, Im sure the government wont abuse this power at all. This administration has no record of EVER doing that. Take the blinders off man!

[/quote]

What ever dude. It’s a waste of time to bother with arguing it here. So many good citizens are in jail because of the patriot act.

[quote=“ecoshardcore,post:9,topic:32637"”]

Yes Jay, Im sure the government wont abuse this power at all. This administration has no record of EVER doing that. Take the blinders off man!

[/quote]

What ever dude. It’s a waste of time to bother with arguing it here.

[quote=“JayS,post:10,topic:32637"”]

Do you have any idea the number of illegal aliens that come through the Akwesasne Mohawk Reservation on the US/Ontario border directly north of there?

[/quote]

That’s your big excuse, a reservation that is 80 MILES AWAY. Set up road block on entrance and exit roads to the reservation. Establish a perimeter around the reservation.

Why is border potrol doing police actions on local residents 35-40 miles away from international borders?

[quote=“fairgentleman Z,post:12,topic:32637"”]

Why is border potrol doing police actions on local residents 35-40 miles away from international borders?

[/quote]

Ive actually stopped and asked. A lot of times if you get a good guard he will be straight up. Some answers I have gotten were that they recieve funding to do thinks like that each year, similar to the State Police roadblocks and check points.

Also, I have heard that its in response to some situation with some information of a person in the area who might have fled that you just dont hear about on the news.

[quote=“boxxa,post:8,topic:32637"”]

PS. Thank god I got a job offer in canada. cant wait to relocate.

[/quote]

Enjoy not being able to see a doctor when you’re sick. :hang:

[quote=“BikerFry,post:14,topic:32637"”]

Enjoy not being able to see a doctor when you’re sick. :hang:

[/quote]

Haha I am looking forward to free health care eventually. I am waiting for my temp visa to go through but i am seriously considering moving there.

[quote=“fairgentleman Z,post:12,topic:32637"”]

That’s your big excuse, a reservation that is 80 MILES AWAY. Set up road block on entrance and exit roads to the reservation. Establish a perimeter around the reservation.

Why is border potrol doing police actions on local residents 35-40 miles away from international borders?

[/quote]

Because when they setup road blocks near the reservation, we would know about them immediately and re-route, or simply not start the trip until the road block was gone.

You have to remember, everyone up there knows that cell calls are intercepted by customs. Once you’re on the road it’s hard to get information safely. You can stop at a payphone, but that looks sketchy as all hell with a car load of Pakistanis. You can use the CB to talk to truckers, but you have to word it carefully. Asking for a smokey report is ok, asking if there is any customs border patrols on an open channel… not so ok.

So, border patrol takes out a map, looks at likely start points and likely destinations (Watertown, Syracuse, outside NYC), and tries to setup road blocks on secondary roads somewhere in between.

Sorry man, but my actual experience with this > your speculation.

[quote=“JayS,post:16,topic:32637"”]

Sorry man, but my actual experience with this > your speculation.

[/quote]

Right, I, as a United States Citizen, driving a vehicle with New York plates have never been stopped at a road block by individuals being paid by my tax dollars in an area other than an internation border.

You are correct I have never have had that experience. :roll:

But :tup: to you by profiting off of illegal activity.

[quote=“fairgentleman Z,post:17,topic:32637"”]

Right, I, as a United States Citizen, driving a vehicle with New York plates have never been stopped at a road block by individuals being paid by my tax dollars in an area other than an internation border.

You are correct I have never have had that experience.

But :tup: to you by profiting off of illegal activity.

[/quote]

I don’t care if you have or haven’t been stopped. I’m explaining why your crying about the road block not being right at the border is stupid. And the fact remains that your reasoning was totally disproved. So just admit that it might be possible someone knows more about something than you and move on. It happens to me all the time.

And I did lots of stupid things when I was in high school. At least this one was technically legal.

[quote=“JayS,post:18,topic:32637"”]

I don’t care if you have or haven’t been stopped. I’m explaining why your crying about the road block not being right at the border is stupid. And the fact remains that your reasoning was totally disproved. So just admit that it might be possible someone knows more about something than you and move on. It happens.

[/quote]

I do care. It is a missapropration of my tax dollars, an inconvience, and a violation of my freedoms.

The only stupidity is try to control a situation 80 miles away and not at the source.

You disproved nothing. You only verified that border patrol does things outside of their jurisdiction. You may know more about the situation, but does not mean that that situation is correct use of government resources. And that is my arguement, not how l337 of a smuggler you were back in the day.

Furthermore why am I being stopped going NORTHBOUND…

THE OPOSITE WAY that all the l337 smuglers are going, and/or would be going?