Interesting Time article. Funny to note he weighed 185-190 pounds for the first 10 years of his career. He was slugging 30-45 per season right along. Then from 1996-1997 he went from 190 to 206 pounds. Still knocking out 30’s and 40’s. Then from 2000-2001 he went from 210-228 and hit 73.
Maybe he had a little help aging gracefully? It just seemed funny because he was comparitively a bean pole for the first 10 years of his career.
In no way do I agree with Bonds and the methods he has taken to surpass some of the greats, but to just play devils advocate for a moment… he wasn’t a super bean pole in his early years with the pirates… the guy was jacked. Since then he has obviously gotten bloated and his chin and forehead have grown ( a result of improper HGH dosing )… but if you took his frame in 85’ and then asked him to stop doing any cardio, gave him a huge diet with an extreme workout… he could be the size he is now without the dope.
I fully believe he was on HGH.
Also… who cares… he won’t be a first ballot hall of fame inductee, and in a blink of an eye he will be surpassed by ARod ( who SEEMS somewhat legit )
:shrug:
still a good summary though
[quote=“sureshot!,post:2,topic:33485"”]
Also… who cares… he won’t be a first ballot hall of fame inductee, and in a blink of an eye he will be surpassed by ARod ( who SEEMS somewhat legit )
[/quote]
But he would have been without the steroids and HGH. Except it would have been for being a combination of contact hitting stats and stolen bases.
So tell me whats the difference between steriods and other supplements
other than the fact that steriods work really really well
[quote=“sureshot!,post:2,topic:33485"”]
In no way do I agree with Bonds and the methods he has taken to surpass some of the greats, but to just play devils advocate for a moment… he wasn’t a super bean pole in his early years with the pirates… the guy was jacked. Since then he has obviously gotten bloated and his chin and forehead have grown ( a result of improper HGH dosing )… but if you took his frame in 85’ and then asked him to stop doing any cardio, gave him a huge diet with an extreme workout… he could be the size he is now without the dope.
I fully believe he was on HGH.
Also… who cares… he won’t be a first ballot hall of fame inductee, and in a blink of an eye he will be surpassed by ARod ( who SEEMS somewhat legit )
:shrug:
still a good summary though
[/quote]
him being 228 now is completely feasible with or without steriods, diet and a good trainer, its totally possible
what about the pitchers that were pitching against him that are using the juice and hgh too?
What type of training makes your hat size jump?
[quote=“ILCisDEAD,post:5,topic:33485"”]
So tell me whats the difference between steriods and other supplements
other than the fact that steriods work really really well
him being 228 now is completely feasible with or without steriods, diet and a good trainer, its totally possible
[/quote]
I absolutely agree that 228 is feasible… admittedly I’m uncertain if you are disagreeing with me or not- sorry it’s just one of those days- but bonds pretty much went from lowbody fat and sculpted to bloated and big overnight- which is an obvious sign of SOMETHING
furthermore the only difference between steroids, growth hormones, pro-hormones, peptides and other supplements is that some are illegal and some are legal. the public will crucify those athletes that use something illegal, but have no problem with athletes that are using compounds which aren’t illegal- even though some of the legal compounds are just as dangerous and powerful as the tried and true steroids.
[quote=“djames,post:6,topic:33485"”]
what about the pitchers that were pitching against him that are using the juice and hgh too?
[/quote]
What most people don’t understand is that it does not matter as much that pitchers were/are using steroids. Pitchers using HGH and Steriods achiever two things from using them: Longevity in the games they pitch and a few mph on the fastball. They have no impact in the breaking pitches and clearly not a positive impact in the change up. Most of the old school fans, players, and commentators complain that the game has changed and that pitchers are babied. They are upset that the norm is a pitcher making it to the 6th or 7th inning. Illegal substances change that, but also hurt pitchers. Pitchers with bulk do not get as much natural movement on fastballs and have a hard time with breaking pitches.
Most pitchers do no use steroids because they just simply don’t need to. They make their abilities decrease not increase.
[quote=“nappy1380,post:9,topic:33485"”]
What most people don’t understand is that it does not matter as much that pitchers were/are using steroids. Pitchers using HGH and Steriods achiever two things from using them: Longevity in the games they pitch and a few mph on the fastball. They have no impact in the breaking pitches and clearly not a positive impact in the change up. Most of the old school fans, players, and commentators complain that the game has changed and that pitchers are babied. They are upset that the norm is a pitcher making it to the 6th or 7th inning. Illegal substances change that, but also hurt pitchers. Pitchers with bulk do not get as much natural movement on fastballs and have a hard time with breaking pitches.
Most pitchers do no use steroids because they just simply don’t need to. They make their abilities decrease not increase.
[/quote]
i really don’t think you know what you are talking about
steroids are not always about bulk… look at palmeiro. you hinted at longevity but dismissed it quickly… and while longevity is important, recovery is probably even more important for pitchers. recovery and longevity can be increased through steroids no doubt… and if you asked a pitcher if he would prefer to be stronger or have the capablity to pitch longer, more frequently- i think the answer is pretty obvious.
Additionally, a few mph on a fastball can make the difference between being a multi million dollar closer and pitching in AAA. Look at all the best closers in the bigs, almost all of them are burners with an extreme fast ball… the difference between 94mph and 98mph is huge… and someone throwing a 100+ mph heater is in a league of his own
They test athletes for drugs now…But did they test athletes back in 1914’s - 1950’s that hold records now?
[quote=“sureshot!,post:10,topic:33485"”]
Additionally, a few mph on a fastball can make the difference between being a multi million dollar closer and pitching in AAA. Look at all the best closers in the bigs, almost all of them are burners with an extreme fast ball… the difference between 94mph and 98mph is huge… and someone throwing a 100+ mph heater is in a league of his own
[/quote]
How many times would Barry Bonds (or any other slugger for that matter) face a closer who is in for 1 inning of work? A bulk of their ABs will be against starting pitching/middle relief.
Bulk is an enemy of a starting pitcher or pitcher who lives and dies by movement and offspeed stuff. Also, a major league hitter will hit a major league pitcher who only throws 100mph fastballs and doesn’t have anything to mix it up with. Some of the big time power hitters have bat speeds in the 90 mph range, combine that with a major league eye and a 100 mph fastball and the ball is going a long ways.
[quote=“sureshot!,post:10,topic:33485"”]
steroids are not always about bulk
[/quote]
Finally someone who knows something. thank you. pitchers would most likely use to help in recovery, anti-inflammatory, or to throw faster. They would problably NEVER use to put on bulk.
[quote=“Shifty,post:11,topic:33485"”]
They test athletes for drugs now…But did they test athletes back in 1914’s - 1950’s that hold records now?
[/quote]
If you think Babe Ruth was on anything other that hot dogs and hookers, you’re crazy.
However, there have been accounts of players using different narcotics to keep them “alert”. Which ones and who I don’t recall.
[quote=“Shifty,post:11,topic:33485"”]
They test athletes for drugs now…But did they test athletes back in 1914’s - 1950’s that hold records now?
[/quote]
My point exactly.
I’ve been a Bonds fan way back when he was on the pirates and I still could care less if he did juice or not. In 1 year a serious athlete could easily pack on 30 lbs of muscle if they have the proper diet/trainer as stated above.
They didn’t technically start the steroid tests until 2004 (from what I read in an earlier article so maybe I’m wrong).
Who knows maybe Hank Aaron used some illegal performance enhancing drug back in his day? We will never know, nor to me would it matter.
I do know one thing, A-Rod will pass Bonds eventually, and then Pujols will pass him (it’s possible).
I’m still rooting for my boy Griffey Jr. to start pounding em away and get that record lol.
[quote=“OriginalSterm,post:14,topic:33485"”]
If you think Babe Ruth was on anything other that hot dogs and hookers, you’re crazy.
[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA not to mention a full blown alcoholic.
[quote=“sureshot!,post:10,topic:33485"”]
i really don’t think you know what you are talking about
[/quote]
I apparently know more about the game then you do. 94 and 98 mph matters…when you are a closer and in no way is the major factor of a big league pitcher. Only a short relief pitcher or closer is concerned with an extra mph or 2. The average MLB starter hovers around the 90-92mph mark. Some of the games best only throw high 80’s.
Pitching is the single most delicate position in the sport. Steroids more often hurt a starting pitcher due to the intricacies of a pitchers delivery. Arm angle, stride, shoulder flex, hand position, release point, forward momentum, arm drag. Any non natural increase in strength effects these and a bunch of other concerns about pitching.
[quote=“sureshot!,post:10,topic:33485"”]
You hinted at longevity but dismissed it quickly… and while longevity is important, recovery is probably even more important for pitchers. recovery and longevity can be increased through steroids no doubt… and if you asked a pitcher if he would prefer to be stronger or have the capablity to pitch longer, more frequently- i think the answer is pretty obvious.
[/quote]
Recovery is more important and is why every club in the MLB went from a 4 man rotation to a 5 man rotation. Your response is someone who just repeats what he reads on mlb.com or watches on espn. A starting pitcher or long relief pitcher would always choose longevity over strength and a closer or set up pitcher would take strength.
Take a look at all of the arm injuries in pitchers in today’s game. They are all due to too much stress on shoulders and elbows without the proper conditioning and recovery tactics after a pitcher has thrown.
[quote=“sureshot!,post:10,topic:33485"”]
Additionally, a few mph on a fastball can make the difference between being a multi million dollar closer and pitching in AAA. Look at all the best closers in the bigs, almost all of them are burners with an extreme fast ball… the difference between 94mph and 98mph is huge… and someone throwing a 100+ mph heater is in a league of his own
[/quote]
Once again… all you talk about is closers.
Starting pitchers importance, salary, career, relevance > Closers
[quote=“ryanmcell,post:15,topic:33485"”]
My point exactly.
I’ve been a Bonds fan way back when he was on the pirates and I still could care less if he did juice or not. In 1 year a serious athlete could easily pack on 30 lbs of muscle if they have the proper diet/trainer as stated above.
They didn’t technically start the steroid tests until 2004 (from what I read in an earlier article so maybe I’m wrong).
Who knows maybe Hank Aaron used some illegal performance enhancing drug back in his day? We will never know, nor to me would it matter.
I do know one thing, A-Rod will pass Bonds eventually, and then Pujols will pass him (it’s possible).
I’m still rooting for my boy Griffey Jr. to start pounding em away and get that record lol.
[/quote]
There isn’t a chance in hell a baseball player can put on 30 lbs of muscle in 1 year. They have practically no time during the season to even touch a gym, and even if they did most ball clubs wouldn’t condone it. In the off season most players play in southern/western leagues. Latin players go back home and play in their own leagues.
:tup: A-Rod will pass Bonds but Conseco says his new book has dirt on A-Rod as well.
They were testing for steroids before 2004 but not HGH.
[quote=“nappy1380,post:17,topic:33485"”]
snip
[/quote]
dude your poor reading comprehension makes elaborating on the aforementioned topics irrelevant. if i type in caps perhaps you’ll understand the point.
STEROIDS ARENT USED FOR JUST BULK AND STRENGTH :bloated:
^^^^ 
some people just dont understand and dont want to believe the truth.