The Healthcare Reform Thread

PolitiSUCK
261

I KNOW YOU LOVE THESE SO HERE IS ANOTHER ONE! :smiley:

The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775 - they’ve had 234 years to get it right; it is broke, and even though heavily subsidized, it can’t compete with private sector FedExp and UPS services.

Social Security was established in 1935 - they’ve had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - they’ve had 71 years to get it right; it is broke. Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - they’ve had 39 years to get it right; it is broke. Together Fannie and Freddie have now led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80 years.

The War on Poverty was started in 1964 - they’ve had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our hard earned money is confiscated each year and transferred to “the poor”; it hasn’t worked.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - they’ve had 44 years to get it right; they are both broke; and now our government dares to mention them as models for all US health care.

AMTRAK was established in 1970 - they’ve had 39 years to get it right; last year they bailed it out as it continues to run at a loss!

This year, a trillion dollars was committed in the massive political payoff called the Stimulus Bill of 2009; it shows NO sign of working; it’s been used to increase the size of governments across America, and raise government salaries while the rest of us suffer from economic hardships. It has yet to create a single new private sector job. Our national debt projections (approaching $10 trillion) have increased 400% in the last six months.

“Cash for Clunkers” was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009 - - after 80% of the cars purchased turned out to be produced by foreign companies, and dealers nationwide are buried under bureaucratic paperwork demanded by a government that is not yet paying them what was promised.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that each and every “service” shoved down our throats by an over-reaching government turns into disaster, how could any informed American trust our government to run or even set policies for America’s health care system - - 17% of our economy?

Maybe each of us has a personal responsibility to let others in on this brilliant record before 2010, and then help remove from office those who are voting to destroy capitalism and destroy our grandchildren’s future.

262

hahahahaha, that is awesome. Cash for Clunkers is my personal favorite. “Went broke,” meaning, hit its targets way ahead of schedule.

263

It was broke after the first transaction. See deficit spending.

264

Yeah, but the others are on point. Bailout we won’t know for years it’s real impact on the recovery so that one goes in the “maybe” column.

265

The Post Office’s money losing business isn’t the part that competes with UPS and FedEx. Priority Mail in my experience is faster and cheaper than its private counterparts, and it helps keep UPS/FedEx prices low. It loses money when you send a letter from here to Hawaii and they pay to airmail it and for a mailman to deliver it on Saturday, and it costs you 40 cents.
I’ll skip to the end. The middle is BS as well.
Stimulus bill shows no sign of working? Failed to create a single new private sector job? Really?

266

Their claim is hasn’t created a single job is BS. I’m just talking about the bailout from their simple “pass/fail” rating. 10 years from now when we can look at the real numbers of the recovery we may very well see that going another trillion in debt did more harm than good.

And it’s hardly the cost of sending letters to Hawaii that’s causing the problems at the post office. Look at this from a 1991 study.

First, look at the composition of the mail today. Of particular interest to most consumers is the use of the mails simply to send a letter or card to a friend or relative, that is, household-to-household mail. But in 1991, this mail comprised only 8.4 percent of total mail flows (down from 12 percent in 1987). Some 3.3 percent of all mail was correspondence, while 4.9 percent was greeting cards. The vast majority of mail, 44.3 percent in 1991, is composed of businesses-to-household communications, mainly advertisements. Mail sent from households to businesses, mostly payment of bills, comprised 15.4 percent in 1991. The phrase “The check is in the mail,” of course, is the euphamism for “Don’t blame me, the post office takes forever to deliver the mail, or at least enough time to allow me to put some money in my account to cover the mailed check.” Mail send from businesses to other businesses constitutes 31.5 percent of the mail in 1991.

You can’t tell me the percentage of person to person correspondence has increased since then because if anything it’s decreased with more and more people using email, facebook, myspace, twitter and sms.

267

Yeah, can’t disagree with that. But the internet has really hurt the Post Office, something that couldn’t possibly be anticipated in the 1700’s and isn’t necessarily a bad thing, since businesses and people sending all of their basic communication thru e-mail saves paper and transportation costs, whereas it’s helped UPS and FedEx since they only focus on packages for the most part, and online shopping is making that business boom. If UPS and Fedex’s main business was basic envelopes for 40 cents, they’d be in the same boat, it’s not due to mismanagement by the gov’t.

268

Yeah! Everyone thought that Reaganomics was a joke, but as soon as Clinton took office it took off and worked really well! :awdrifter:

269

Haha, on the Republican economic timeframe this recession was caused by Clinton and the recovery will be when the Bush tax cuts kick in. :roflpicard:

270

^Who said that?

271

:stuck_out_tongue: Probably Jeg. :gotme:

272

The Republican economic timeframe is basically every economic boom that happens when we have a Democratic president was actually caused by a Republican predecessor, and every recession that happens with a Republican in charge was caused by a past Democrat. Best evidence when they credited the Clinton economic boom to Reaganomics and the Bush recession to Clinton.
They already blamed the housing crisis on Clinton, once we get a recovery I wouldnt be surprised to see Rush et al give Bush credit

273

Well it was Reno actually if you want to get specific.
You remember her, the one that used our military to kill our own citizens.

274

There are always excuses for every bloated government program. If the post office were a private company it would have to find ways to remain profitable. If that means it costs $4 to send a letter to your grandma then fine. You send enough you’ll get her a cheap computer and internet access, or email your letters to someone who still lives there and have them print them out and give to her.

The underlying problem is when you have this never ending bucket of taxpayers funds to dip into horrible business decisions get made. You get people delivering mail make more money with better benefits than college grads with bachelors degrees, while their “company” says they need more taxpayer money to stay afloat.

I notice you haven’t wanted to touch the other examples either. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security or my two favorites, Fannie and Freddy. With such a proven track record of staying in budget and running things well why wouldn’t we want a public option for health care?

275

I haven’t touched the other examples because there’s no point to argue them, I’m not going to change your minds anyway. I picked the top and bottom ones as proof of concept, and didn’t change anyone’s mind. The middle would be no different.
It’s OK for the government to be involved in things that cost money, but benefit America. That’s what they are there for.

276

In theory yes, but we have yet to see one in the history of our government that didn’t become an ever escalating cost overrun. “Just pay for it” is far too easy a choice when you don’t really have a bottom line to answer for.

277

The military and defense is the biggest offender at doing this, yet the minute anyone questions it they get called un-American.

278

very well put, and this is the basic model for all free market operations (that is, if the usps was an actual private company). When companies know that they are going to have capital made availlable to them for unwise lending practices, aka bailouts, they rarely ever make wise decisions, and why should they? They know that their big brother (the fed) is going to come to their rescue with many billions and now trillions of dollars to help them stay afloat and continue their unwise business practices. And so goes the business cycle itself. Its one of the reasons why hard work and dedication to doing a job right is no longer a value we learn or teach today. In a true free market businesses are truly held accountable for their risky and many times, illegal business practices. But not in todays world. It is such a shame seeing the free market get blamed for a whole slew of things that it just doesnt do.

279

We should privatize the government.

280

They didn’t know that. They made those bad decisions all on their own, in the interest of maximizing profits. Free market’s fault. Don’t believe me? Ask Lehman, Bear Stearns, Merrill, WaMu, Countrywide, etc. The bailout was unforeseeable until they started dropping.