The Healthcare Reform Thread


lots of ignorance in this thread already.

the biggest change needs to be moving medical payments for improvements in patient health (or maintenance of good health) as opposed to treatment of poor health.

the incentives are structured wrongly.

and a huge driver is the way the current (former) insurance system was set up, with such a small portion of the population financing the entire operation.


good point walter, a lot of doctors are paid based on the number of patients they see and not the quality of care they give. solid point.


That’s the problem with this entire debate (and most of politics in general). People just regurgitate often patently incorrect fact patterns that they feel fit their own bias.

I’m the last person that thinks people should be rolling around with iPhones while living in subsidized housing and getting free food; but there is a difference between your point of view and just arguing made up fallacies.

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------

and on top of that, the reimbursement structure is horribly broken; it (in theory) is to try and help promote innovation; but what it does it put adoption of new (and often less effective) modalities ahead of whats ultimately best for the patient. If you don’t do your research when you have health issues, you’re going to have a bad time.


I’m pretty sure that by “made up fallacy”, you are reffering to what everyone is afraid of the most, cost. What will this cost america? What kind of debt will it put the government in? What kind of tax increases will we see because of increased debt?

Personally, I feel that the costs have been underestimated. Insurance companies are already passing down the costs of these regulations to employers, who have subesquently increased the cost to their employees. The cost WILL trickle down to the consumer somehow or another. No CEO will sit back and accept a lower bottom line.


I won’t bother commenting anything else, since this thread is already a steaming pile of unsubstantiated bias.


People moving to Canada to avoid socialized healthcare:




I think people want to move because this country has been destroyed, healthcare was just the straw that broke the camel’s back for some.

Don’t forget in this healthcare deal the federal govt takes over college loans which are the biggest debt of people today. There is so much CRAP in this bill that has NOTHING to do with peoples health. AND millions still won’t be covered.


This is actually interesting:






Not exactly, the court did strike down the portion where the federal government forces the states to expand medicaid or they’ll withhold payment for existing medicaid patients. You can’t hold the existing patients hostage to expansion (7-2 for striking it down I think the decision was.) The suit was filled by the states in part because of this and would have happened regardless of how individual mandate / tax component was worded.

But we’re past that now. What I care about is how this will effect myself, the business I’m in and others like it.

We know as an individual if you don’t have insurance you’ll pay $95 for the first few years (whoop-te-do) but then the cost goes up to 2.5% of your income.

But when it comes to a business, does anyone have a resource that explains the free rider penalty / provision? I found this below:

Those of us in small businesses are going to have some interesting decisions to make / weigh since our situations bridge both the individual and business components of the law.


Re: all of this shit that just got merged in:
The only ways to significantly and sustainably lower costs are single payer, or eliminating the need to cover people who can’t pay in the emergency room and letting them die. Everything else is fighting a wildfire with a garden hose.


But a monopoly in private business is never a good thing right? :slight_smile:

(This is just going back to the “Right” verses a “Privilege” argument which doesn’t advance anything at the moment.)


i will be buying insurance in january, may and september only starting in 2014…no tax penalty if you are uninsured for less than 3 months.


You’re well off…if you do get sick you’re cool with losing everything right?
A monopoly in FOR PROFIT business is never a good thing, because it leads to excess profits. The government isn’t in it for profit. They can also wipe out some of the excess profits the medical administrators are raking in hand over fist.

Oh, and voting for Romney because you’re against health care reform, which is basically identical to Romneycare that was passed before Obama came anywhere near the White House, is equivalent to moving to Canada to get away from socialized health care.


I’m not sure how it works when you buy your insurance privately, but when your insurance is through your employer, they generally only do enrollment once per year. For this exact reason.


Hey, they can’t deny you for a per-existing condition so you might as well pay the small penalty and sign up after you get cancer!

Your employer could sign people up each month if they wanted to.

Excess profits, lol.

A monopoly, whether government or private, limits the choice of consumers. Limited choice leads to a lack of innovation & motivation for lack of competition.

In an age when we have more choice than ever before and can clearly see how it’s enriched our lives, you’d prefer the government take over and offer us none.

It’s a good thing single payer health care went down today with that majority opinion against the commerce clause! :wink:


Single payer health care, if passed and for the public benefit, funded by taxes, is way more constitutional than Romney/Obamacare. See Medicare, Medicaid, every government program.

You can apply the choice argument to every public service. In an age where you could have your choice of hundreds of options for private security, where you could pick whatever rent-a-cops you chose to keep you and your stuff safe, you’d prefer the government take over and continue to force you to use their police. Same thing for roads, fire departments, sewers, and all kinds of other fun stuff


It is month to month…I could buy this month and not next…although right now the application and underwriting process takes a couple weeks…hopefully it will be stream lined by the time I start this scheme…I’ll need to be able to buy from the back of an ambulance

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

What can I lose? I’m guarunteed coverage…buy when I need to avoid the tax and buy a month of coverage when I need coverage…and actually at some hospitals it is just cheaper to pay cash…a CAT scan might be $4k list price, $2k with insurance and only $300 if you pay cash that day…sometimes you just have to ask