The Healthcare Reform Thread


#621

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/06/28/flashback_of_the_day.html
We’re waiting, idiot…


#622

1895 The Supreme Court ruled the IRS/income tax is unconstitutional.
2012 The Supreme Court ruled the healthcare bill Constitutional if it is in the form of a tax through the IRS.
Good thing The Supreme Court has supreme rule.


#623

1913 the Constitution is changed by the 16th amendment to allow the IRS. Kind of important middle step you left out there.
The Supreme Court doesn’t have supreme rule when 2/3 of both houses of Congress and 3/4 of the states say otherwise.


#624

You left out the fact that it was never properly radified. Kind of an important step. :wink:


#625

Ah yes, that old gag. From the scammer that wrote a book on how to use it as a defense, made millions on it, then proceeded to have everyone who used it get their asses handed to them in court, to the point that the Supreme Court automatically deems anyone who tries using it legally frivolous. :tinfoilhat:


#626

Pretty scary huh?
You are a smart guy who is internet savy, post me a link to the the law which states you must pay Federal taxes on your wages. I can’t find it but I am old and stupid.


#627


The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
The actual laws that state you must pay federal taxes are millions of pages of tax laws passed by congress. But there’s the part of the constitution that gives them permission to do that.


#628

Wages are not income. Show me where it says wages can be taxed. And don’t post a link to some Liberal Ivy League BS. :wink:


#629

Wages are a type of income:

“Income” is a much broader term than “wage.” Income is any accession to wealth. If you receive interest on a bank deposit, receive a dividend from a stock you own, or even win the lottery, you have income because you got richer.

Compensation is another kind of income. Compensation is income in respect of the performance of services of any kind. If you paint someone’s house in return for money, that is compensation.

“Wages” are a specific type of compensation. Wages are compensation measured by the amount of time you work–by the hour, week, month, or year. If you paint someone’s house in return for money on completion of the job, you have compensation, but not wages. But if you are paid a specific amount of money for each hour you spend painting, you have wages.

Is there such a thing as a wage tax? Yes. Wages are one type of income. Section 1 of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code imposes a tax on income. Section 61 of the Code defines “income” to include, among other things, “Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items.” Because wages are a type of compensation for services, wages are subject to income tax.


#630

So you are posting code? I want to see a law. I am not interested in the code of thieves. :smiley:
Compensation is not income.

I pay taxes because I own a company and it/I have income(profit). Paying someone to work is not profit it is compensation.
The asset of their time = the asset of pay. That is called breaking even not profiting/income. You don’t pay taxes for breaking even.


#631

so you refuse to admit that wages are a subset of income?


#632

Why would I admit such a falsehood, because the criminals want me to believe that?
I stand by my explaination in the last post.


#633

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/61
26 U.S.C. § 61
. . . Gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:
(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;
(2) Gross income derived from business;
(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
(4) Interest;
(5) Rents;
(6) Royalties;
(7) Dividends;
(8) Alimony and separate maintenance payments;
(9) Annuities;
(10) Income from life insurance and endowment contracts;
(11) Pensions;
(12) Income from discharge of indebtedness;
(13) Distributive share of partnership gross income;
(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and
(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust. . . .

For fun, the ruling when the guy made the argument you are that wages are not income:
Parker vs. Commissioner of Internal Revenue Service

Petitioner has based his case on frivolous and groundless positions that are very similar to the positions he took in the case at docket No. 17301-09. In the order dismissing that case for failure to state a claim on which relief could be granted, this Court stated: “Petitioner is advised that if he returns to the Court in the future and raises arguments such as those in the instant case, he may find himself the recipient of a substantial penalty under section 6673(a)(1).” Petitioner has chosen to ignore this warning, as well as additional warnings that this Court and respondent have given him in this proceeding. Although he showed some willingness to discuss relevant factual issues at trial, after trial he reverted to his old ways, filing a frivolous and groundless motion for judgment and a posttrial brief consisting of nothing but frivolous and groundless arguments. Petitioner has wasted this Court’s and respondent’s time and resources. It appearing to the Court that petitioner’s positions in this proceeding are frivolous and groundless and that he has instituted and maintained this proceeding primarily for delay, pursuant to section 6673(a)(1) we shall require petitioner to pay to the United States a penalty of $3,000.


#634

Again that is code and the fox is gaurding the hen house. Although some people have won cases against taxes but I don’t expect you to post that.

You wait for Oreilly and I will wait for the LAW link. :wink: And again don’t post some college link, post a Fed link.


#635

Gross income means all income from whatever source derived. Do you believe that wages are not income derived from any source?

EDIT: http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t26t28+126+0++(income)%20%20AND%20(USC%20w%2F10%20(61))%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20


#636

Did you ever see where someone purchased in The NY Times a full page ad with a $50,000 reward for the first person to find the law? No one ever collected the $50,000.

---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

CORRECT! Did you read my post?

---------- Post added at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------

If you buy a widget for $1000 and then sell it for $1000 do you pay federal income tax on that? HELL NO!


#637

So compensation for services is clearly defined as income. Yet compensation given to an employee for the services they performed for the company is not income?


#638

Clearly defined by the thieves. SHOW ME THE LAW!!!
I’M WAITING…

YOU should pay taxes because your wages today are greater than the contribution to your company while you are trying to win a debate that you cannot rather than working/contributing to your employer. That could be income.
BAZINGA!!!


#639

All I get out of your argument is that because the word “Wages” was not listed in there as one of the examples of income, you will invent logic to say that they’re not no matter what anyone else (or reason) says. If they put the word “Wages” in there, would it shut you up?

EDIT: Here you go. Here’s what wages are, IN THE CODE
http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t26t28+1311+4++()%20%20AND%20(USC%20w%2F10%20(3401))%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20
CHAPTER 24 - COLLECTION OF INCOME TAX AT SOURCE ON WAGES

(a) Wages

  For purposes of this chapter, the term "wages" means all

remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for

services performed by an employee for his employer, including the

cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any

medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include

remuneration paid - 

    (1) for active service performed in a month for which such

  employee is entitled to the benefits of section 112 (relating to

  certain combat zone compensation of members of the Armed Forces

  of the United States) to the extent remuneration for such service

  is excludable from gross income under such section; or

    (2) for agricultural labor (as defined in section 3121(g))

  unless the remuneration paid for such labor is wages (as defined

  in section 3121(a)); or

    (3) for domestic service in a private home, local college club,

  or local chapter of a college fraternity or sorority; or

    (4) for service not in the course of the employer's trade or

  business performed in any calendar quarter by an employee, unless

  the cash remuneration paid for such service is $50 or more and

  such service is performed by an individual who is regularly

  employed by such employer to perform such service. For purposes

  of this paragraph, an individual shall be deemed to be regularly

  employed by an employer during a calendar quarter only if - 

      (A) on each of some 24 days during such quarter such

    individual performs for such employer for some portion of the

    day service not in the course of the employer's trade or

    business; or

      (B) such individual was regularly employed (as determined

    under subparagraph (A)) by such employer in the performance of

    such service during the preceding calendar quarter; or

    (5) for services by a citizen or resident of the United States

  for a foreign government or an international organization; or

    (6) for such services, performed by a nonresident alien

  individual, as may be designated by regulations prescribed by the

  Secretary; or

    [(7) Repealed. Pub. L. 89-809, title I, Sec. 103(k), Nov. 13,

  1966, 80 Stat. 1554]

    (8)(A) for services for an employer (other than the United

  States or any agency thereof) - 

      (i) performed by a citizen of the United States if, at the

    time of the payment of such remuneration, it is reasonable to

    believe that such remuneration will be excluded from gross

    income under section 911; or

      (ii) performed in a foreign country or in a possession of the

    United States by such a citizen if, at the time of the payment

    of such remuneration, the employer is required by the law of

    any foreign country or possession of the United States to

    withhold income tax upon such remuneration; or

    (B) for services for an employer (other than the United States

  or any agency thereof) performed by a citizen of the United

  States within a possession of the United States (other than

  Puerto Rico), if it is reasonable to believe that at least 80

  percent of the remuneration to be paid to the employee by such

  employer during the calendar year will be for such services; or

    (C) for services for an employer (other than the United States

  or any agency thereof) performed by a citizen of the United

  States within Puerto Rico, if it is reasonable to believe that

  during the entire calendar year the employee will be a bona fide

  resident of Puerto Rico; or

    (D) for services for the United States (or any agency thereof)

  performed by a citizen of the United States within a possession

  of the United States to the extent the United States (or such

  agency) withholds taxes on such remuneration pursuant to an

  agreement with such possession; or

    (9) for services performed by a duly ordained, commissioned, or

  licensed minister of a church in the exercise of his ministry or

  by a member of a religious order in the exercise of duties

  required by such order; or

    (10)(A) for services performed by an individual under the age

  of 18 in the delivery or distribution of newspapers or shopping

  news, not including delivery or distribution to any point for

  subsequent delivery or distribution; or

    (B) for services performed by an individual in, and at the time

  of, the sale of newspapers or magazines to ultimate consumers,

  under an arrangement under which the newspapers or magazines are

  to be sold by him at a fixed price, his compensation being based

  on the retention of the excess of such price over the amount at

  which the newspapers or magazines are charged to him, whether or

  not he is guaranteed a minimum amount of compensation for such

  services, or is entitled to be credited with the unsold

  newspapers or magazines turned back; or

    (11) for services not in the course of the employer's trade or

  business, to the extent paid in any medium other than cash; or

    (12) to, or on behalf of, an employee or his beneficiary - 

      (A) from or to a trust described in section 401(a) which is

    exempt from tax under section 501(a) at the time of such

    payment unless such payment is made to an employee of the trust

    as remuneration for services rendered as such employee and not

    as a beneficiary of the trust; or

      (B) under or to an annuity plan which, at the time of such

    payment, is a plan described in section 403(a); or

      (C) for a payment described in section 402(h)(1) and (2) if,

    at the time of such payment, it is reasonable to believe that

    the employee will be entitled to an exclusion under such

    section for payment; or

      (D) under an arrangement to which section 408(p) applies; or

      (E) under or to an eligible deferred compensation plan which,

    at the time of such payment, is a plan described in section

    457(b) which is maintained by an eligible employer described in

    section 457(e)(1)(A),(!1) or

    (13) pursuant to any provision of law other than section 5(c)

  or 6(1) of the Peace Corps Act, for service performed as a

  volunteer or volunteer leader within the meaning of such Act; or

    (14) in the form of group-term life insurance on the life of an

  employee; or

    (15) to or on behalf of an employee if (and to the extent that)

  at the time of the payment of such remuneration it is reasonable

  to believe that a corresponding deduction is allowable under

  section 217 (determined without regard to section 274(n)); or

    (16)(A) as tips in any medium other than cash;

    (B) as cash tips to an employee in any calendar month in the

  course of his employment by an employer unless the amount of such

  cash tips is $20 or more; (!2)

    (17) for service described in section 3121(b)(20); (!2)

    (18) for any payment made, or benefit furnished, to or for the

  benefit of an employee if at the time of such payment or such

  furnishing it is reasonable to believe that the employee will be

  able to exclude such payment or benefit from income under section

  127, 129, 134(b)(4), or 134(b)(5); (!2)

    (19) for any benefit provided to or on behalf of an employee if

  at the time such benefit is provided it is reasonable to believe

  that the employee will be able to exclude such benefit from

  income under section 74(c), 108(f)(4), 117, or 132; (!2)

    (20) for any medical care reimbursement made to or for the

  benefit of an employee under a self-insured medical reimbursement

  plan (within the meaning of section 105(h)(6)); (!2)

    (21) for any payment made to or for the benefit of an employee

  if at the time of such payment it is reasonable to believe that

  the employee will be able to exclude such payment from income

  under section 106(b); (!2)

    (22) any payment made to or for the benefit of an employee if

  at the time of such payment it is reasonable to believe that the

  employee will be able to exclude such payment from income under

  section 106(d); or

    (23) for any benefit or payment which is excludable from the

  gross income of the employee under section 139B(b).

The term “wages” includes any amount includible in gross income of

an employee under section 409A and payment of such amount shall be

treated as having been made in the taxable year in which the amount

is so includible.</b>

#640

I am still waiting… for the law. Just because some criminal cartel has a code that wants my money I should pay?