oaklahoma would probably be ruined if they got pro sports. when i think oklahoma i think about football and baseball in its purest forms. same thing with nebraska and the rest of the bread basket.
You are not basing your post on the right information. Pittsburgh is 53rd when you count the people living in the actual city limits. When you take the metro area as a whole we are much larger.
According to Arbitron (the company that surveys TV and radio audiences), Pittsburgh is the 22nd largest TV metro in the US and the 23rd largest radio metro. The difference is due to there being fewer TV stations than radio stations so the survey areas are a bit off. About 15 years ago when I first started working in radio Pittsburgh was the 14th largest metro in the country.
The metro area (as indicated by Arbitron) is clearly larger than most of the cities you mentioned. I personally think there are plenty of people in the area to support the Pirates. The Steelers seem (to me anyway) to get more support because of the tailgating and party atmosphere that pervades the NFL. If people could attend all 81 Pirate home games and get sloppy drunk like they can at Heinz Field then you’d see a lot of sold out games at PNC Park.
amen to that.
thank you for an informered post, thats a breath of fresh air around here.
If they would win. more people would go. but fact is people dont wanna pay money to see them lose. that is also a big factor
I also don’t think the pirates ever has a “dyanasty” so to speak like the steelers of the 70’s. Because they were that good at one time it fuels the hopr of another ring.
As for the priates well…
it’s not the dynasty that keeps people coming.
it’s the fact that the steelers have a chance to do well in any given season. the steelers didn’t have a decade of losing seasons in a row in my lifetime. the pirates know before opening day that it’s an uphill battle just to make it to .500
the stillers? every year is a possible super bowl ring, or at the very least, a possible divison title. if it makes people fair-weather fans because they like to watch a team with a prayer of winning, then most people are fair weather fans.
First of all, the winning analogy doesn’t really hold water, as the Pirates haven’t had a winning season in over a decade, and attendance sucks, but take a look at Chicago AND Boston…Chicago fans have two losing teams to choose from, and attendance at both fields NEVER flags. Boston, before breaking the curse last year, had the most diehard fans EVER, and I’m sure a lot of “Johhny come latelys” now…
As for Pittsburgh? The revitalization of the North Shore depends on PNC park as an anchor. It sits in a commercial district that now has the Andy Warhol Museum, a new Hotel, 2 new corporate headquarters…None of these things would have been possible in the asphalt lake that was Three Rivers. Moreover, we pay a tax here in Allegheny Co. that will be here if the Pirates move or not, to pay for both new stadiums, and the remaining 20 million they owed on Three Rivers Stadium (ironically, more was owed on it in 2000 than when it was built).
With the loss of the Penguins this season, and maybe forever… (don’t hope, it’s coming) area restaurants, hotels, merchandisers, employees and vendors ALL either lost their jobs, or are losing money, and there’s no end in sight for the strike (apparently, the players don’t realize that the owners don’t care: they lose LESS money when there’s no gameplay)
So that leaves us with the Pirates and the Steelers (and here’s who’s come and gone in the past 25 years…Pittsburgh Spirit, indoor soccer MISL, Pittsburgh Maulers, USFL…(man, that first game was COLD), Pittsburgh Gladiators, Arena Football League, Pittsburgh Phantoms, Indoor Lacrosse, I can’t remember the name of our Roller Hockey team… But yet, the Pirates are here (with two city bailouts under it’s belt) We also have one of the most beautiful parks in the country, and the 2006 All Star Game will be played here.
Unfortunately, forget the aspect of “bringing blue collar manufacturing jobs here” It’s NEVER going to happen…Heck, even Heinz has pulled most of it’s jobs out of here…The plant where VW’s were made in Westmoreland was owned by Chrysler before that, built in the late 60’s to be an engine plant, never opened…Pittsburgh and surrounding areas have way too bad a reputation with Unions, Poor quality worksmanship, and way too high wages. (ask the Turnpike workers about the backlash from the public when they found out how much they made to be overglorified cashiers)
As for the Nascar track? Brandt Motorsports had even gone so far as to break ground out by the airport, but the backers just weren’t there, and Nascar already is branching out into markets a heck of a lot bigger than us (namely, Mexico) …
So, keep the Pirates…Yeah, they suck, but loyalty brings money, money brings players, players bring fans…vicious cycle…
The Phantoms were our roller hockey team.
that was always cool to watch. i had a buddy who played on that team. always a good time
the pirates were a strong team throughout the 70’s with two world championships and i think atleast 4 play off apearences. You gotta remember only two teams made the playoffs in each league then. its not fair to compare the two because its totally different. its not the the steelers are that much better an organziation that the pirates its that the NFL is that much better than MLB. The NFL got a major TV contract, salary cap, collective bargining, etc…
I could look at these old logos all day. You can almost see that they were destined to fail by the logo:
the phantoms logo was alright
Exactly.
If MLB had the exact same set up as the NFL you would see the Pirates playing on the same level as the Yankees. The unfortunate fact is that when one team can afford to pay one player $18 million a year and other teams can barely afford to pay their ENTIRE team $25 to $30 a year you are going to have chronic winners and chronic losers. From what I understand, the MLB players union is one of the toughest in pro sports while the NFl union is fairly easy going. It’s going to take a lot to get anything approaching parity in baseball with the players union being so strong.
Even the players in MLB have to see that this unfair economic balance is ruining the game. I’d be willing to bet that the majority of baseball owners would sacrifice a season of the game (like the NHL did) to fix this problem. I’m not so sure if it’s going to happen at the next contract renegotiation, maybe the one or two after that at the soonest.
In the meantime you’ll continue to see clubs like the Pirates acting as minor league teams that develop young talent and then see them move on to the big teams with the big wallets. I doubt the Bucs can keep Jack Wilson, Jason Bay or Oliver Perez after their current contracts are up. Most likey I’m the biggest Pirate fan on this board but I have to admit that their chances of even breaking .500 (much less getting a wild card slot) is about zero.
Despite that, I’ll still buy my tickets (still thinking about getting season tickets now that I live close to downtown) and enjoy a few games at the best major league ballpark. Too bad the Pirates play the Yankees in New York this year. I’d have liked to booed them in person.
i use to lifeguard for the city, lifeguarded in the hill, hazelwood, northside, all the bad places. but i dont think its as bad as most people think it is in those areas, although i was shot at when i worked at burgwin in hazelwood.
and about thie pirates, who cars if they suck, or dont do well, its still nice to go down there a few times a year, or atleast once a year and watch a game, so what that food is alot and parking and all that crap, its a nice stadium and its a fun time, i think everyone should go atleast once to the ball park every year, im sure most go to kennywood and sandcastle atleast once a year, why not go to see the pirates play.
not me. i think kennywood gets REALLY boring
I think all of us Allegheny County residents should get at least 1 free Pirates or Steelers ticket every year because we are paying 1% sales tax to the teams. FYI, I was taxed on purchases of $36k in Allegheny County last year. The county got $360 from me personally last year and I did not get anything in return. The least they could do is show their appreciation by giving me a couple free tickets to a ball game.
nope, I;m not going to watse money on high food and drink prices and parking to go sit and see them loose. I don;t care how nice the stadium is.
Also I don’t go to kennywood anymore and havn’t been there in several years. I think the last time I was there was the last year of the steel phantom. Now that they don’t have any rollercosters that are fast and inverted, I could care less, especially with all the trash that ends up there anyways. Its pretty pathedic that they have to have a dress code because asshole gang bangers turn anything and everything into something “Gang related” :rolleyes:
kennywood has a dress code???
:eek4dance
yeah its gay they have a bunch of signs now "No BLAH BALH Blah. and its like certain colors, types of hats, certain insignias…its fucking retarded…