The Trump Presidency Discussion Thread (Non-Meme version)

[Paulo]

@LZ

Anyone upset about the upcoming vote on national reciprocity vote coming up?

No original thoughts to add on the tax bill? Or are you waiting for someone to tell you how to argue for it?

[LZ1]

@Paulo

No original thoughts to add on the tax bill? Or are you waiting for someone to tell you how to argue for it?

I’m happy with the tax bill…I don’t care about arguing about with someone who has the opposite view on the entire thing.

We have no common ground on any of it and thats fine.

Other topics sure

[Paulo]

Sounds like you should be able to add some insight then. I’m trying to understand all sides, not be combative. (Seriously)

What long term positive effects do you see from this plan?

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@LZ

We have no common ground on any of it and thats fine.

:rolleyes:

Doubtful.

[JayS]

@LZ

Anyone upset about the upcoming vote on national reciprocity vote coming up?

I’m 100% in approval of this, and 1000% for the simple fact that if it gets signed Cuomo will likely die of a massive aneurysm.

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In other news, Al Franken to make announcement Thursday. My guess is it’s his resignation. Do do do… another one bites the dust.

[juicedz4]

Whats this they are combining (combined?) the reciprocity bill with the NICS fix bill?

[LZ1]

@juicedz4

Whats this they are combining (combined?) the reciprocity bill with the NICS fix bill?

Yes

[juicedz4]

Im 1000% for reciprocity. I cant decide if this fix NICS is good or bad.

[Paulo]

@JayS

In other news, Al Franken to make announcement Thursday. My guess is it’s his resignation. Do do do… another one bites the dust.

So you think Roy Moore should have stepped down/should step down?

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

Thanks to the 179 plan, this will be the third year in a row I don’t pay taxes. Next year is going to suck bigly if I don’t buy another machine. It is like extortion, “If you don’t spend, spend, spend, we take, take, take.”

[JayS]

@Paulo

So you think Roy Moore should have stepped down/should step down? [/COLOR]

If there was proof like the Franken case sure. Should he resign based on unproven accusations from 30 years ago that he’s denying? Nope. Let the people vote and if he’s re-elected let the investigation decide. Innocent until proven guilty remember? It’s a whole lot different when there is a crisp high res photo of you groping a sleeping woman while you smile for the camera and you admit you did it like Franken. Even worse when you apologize but there’s an inconvenient book you work a couple years ago where you said the last time you apologized for something like this you didn’t really mean it and only apologized to get elected.

[boardjnky4]

Moore should absolutely step down. The accusations are credible and there are now multiple yearbook/memory items shat would add credibility to the claims.

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@Paulo

Most everyone will get a tax cut in the first year but that’s hardly the point. What effect will this bill have 2-3 years down the road for you? 5-6 years? How about for your kids? Now, how about the billionaires who will benefit from the permanent tax breaks? What happens to federally funded programs considering they are drastically reducing their own revenue and creating a massive deficit increase?

From earlier:

I’m only seeing short term arguments in support of the tax bill. Most right wingers know better than to call it trickle down economics. Do you really think the wealthiest people are going to stimulate the economy with a few more million? Fuck no. They will just be wealthier.

So, honestly, what long term positive effects do you see from this plan?

The long term affects SHOULD be more spending. That would lead to more money being taxed, which would cover the loss in revenue.

[JayS]

My problem with Moore, and really all of these recent accusations, goes back to the Duke lacrosse rape case. Anyone remember that? Her story was credible enough that the DA was moving forward with charges, the entire lacrosse season was canceled and the coach had to resign. Only problem? She made it all up.

If a politician, celebrity or otherwise is accused and admits it fine, boot them out of government, kick them out of 30 Rockefeller… I’m totally good with that when they admit or admit and try and hide behind apologies. If they deny it you’re still innocent until proven guilty though.

Duke lacrosse case

[Paulo]

@JayS

If there was proof like the Franken case sure. Should he resign based on unproven accusations from 30 years ago that he’s denying? Nope. Let the people vote and if he’s re-elected let the investigation decide. Innocent until proven guilty remember? It’s a whole lot different when there is a crisp high res photo of you groping a sleeping woman while you smile for the camera and you admit you did it like Franken. Even worse when you apologize but there’s an inconvenient book you work a couple years ago where you said the last time you apologized for something like this you didn’t really mean it and only apologized to get elected.

Roy Moore has admitted that he went after 14 year old girls while in his 30’s. The interview he did with Sean Hannity was a joke. Hannity was trying so hard to lead him into denying it and he just wasn’t getting it. The dude is a fucking creep, pedophile, and shouldn’t be in office.

Side note: The photo of Franken doesn’t show him actually groping her. It’s his hands hovering over her chest. Big difference. At least the guy has the balls to admit to something and own it. Either way, if he sexually harassed someone, he should be out. The same rules apply left or right.

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

Meanwhile back at the ranch… One of the most powerful entities in the World is fucking us over bigly! It is called the FBI.

[LZ1]

It would be nice to see both sides agree to some sort of due process around all this and leave politics out of it. Allegations across entertainment and politics range from questionable comments to actual rape and people get destroyed in the court of public opinion quickly.

A couple weeks before the election I can’t remember how many people the news paraded across TV that made claims about Trump and then the stories fell apart.

All that being said Roy Moore should step down based on his own comments.

[Onyx_Z32]

@Paulo

… I’ll happily eat my words if it wasn’t true. (Not that I did anything aside from post an article that almost every outlet was reporting. Even if the records were turned over/subpoenaed it doesn’t mean shit unless there was actual wrong doing.)

I wasn’t trying to attack you personally man, but rather the “jump to conclusions” narrative of the media. The media is so shitty and lazy right now.

Here we go:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-05/deutsche-bank-said-to-be-subpoenaed-by-mueller

Those records pertain to people affiliated with President Donald Trump, said the person, who asked not to be identified because the action hasn’t been announced. Several news outlets – including Bloomberg – reported yesterday that the subpoena targeted Trump and his family’s bank records…

So no documents related to Trump, but related to people affiliated with Trump.

[JayS]

@Paulo

Roy Moore has admitted that he went after 14 year old girls while in his 30’s.

Source? If that’s true then yes he should step down.

[bing]

@Paulo

Most everyone will get a tax cut in the first year but that’s hardly the point. What effect will this bill have 2-3 years down the road for you? 5-6 years? How about for your kids? Now, how about the billionaires who will benefit from the permanent tax breaks? What happens to federally funded programs considering they are drastically reducing their own revenue and creating a massive deficit increase?

From earlier:

I’m only seeing short term arguments in support of the tax bill. Most right wingers know better than to call it trickle down economics. Do you really think the wealthiest people are going to stimulate the economy with a few more million? Fuck no. They will just be wealthier.

So, honestly, what long term positive effects do you see from this plan?

I’m conflicted over this. on one hand, as an over-taxed canadian, i do see the government spending the money on infrastructure, health care and a variety of social programs. Even though i dont agree with how that money is spent i understand that it is ALSO trickle-down or trickle-through economics… all those bloated government salaries get spent by the people earning them.

On the other hand, if this US tax thing goes through it will make my US operations more profitable and we will absolutely spend all of that money either through the business or draw it out and spend it on ourselves.

If we’re talking about a 15% or so of personal or corporate income that either goes to the government for them to spend or stays with me for me to spend i will always favour having the money stay with me so that i can at least receive some semblance of value for that money and have discretion over which part of the economy receives that money.

And I will raise my sons to believe likewise.

[Paulo]

@JayS

Source? If that’s true then yes he should step down.

I should say he did everything but openly admit it. Listening to his interview with Hannity was laughable. When asked about if he dated teens while in his 30’s his response was 'Not generally, no." Umm what? Should be a pretty straight forward answer. Not to mention that many people have corroborated the story about him being banned from a mall and YMCA for his predatory behavior towards young girls.

@The New Yorker

This past weekend, I spoke or messaged with more than a dozen people—including a major political figure in the state—who told me that they had heard, over the years, that Moore had been banned from the mall because he repeatedly badgered teen-age girls. Some say that they heard this at the time, others in the years since. These people include five members of the local legal community, two cops who worked in the town, several people who hung out at the mall in the early eighties, and a number of former mall employees.

An expert on the matter said this when questioned about Roy Moore:

@Hank Hill

That boy ain’t right.

@Onyx Z32

I wasn’t trying to attack you personally man, but rather the “jump to conclusions” narrative of the media. The media is so shitty and lazy right now.

I know. Didn’t mean to come off as defensive. :tup:

Here we go:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
So no documents related to Trump, but related to people affiliated with Trump.

I mean, I won’t be surprised if we find out later that he did request specific details on Trump. Mueller has been running a tight ship.

But for now it looks like they all took a single report from Germany and went ballistic on it. Fucking hell, people. Get your shit together.

[LZ1]

Gillibrand trying to get Trump to resign over accusations from random women that just popped up?

Weird tactics from the party that brought us Bill Clinton