I appreciate the response, but you used a lot of words to tell me nothing and instead tried to compare it to something Obama did. I’m fine with discussing that stuff, but check the title of the thread.
Tell me what’s good about this tax bill in the long term.
After 2025, many of the individual tax cuts are rolled back to current levels…yes and? It’s really common for things to sunset or roll back after a certain date.
So we pay less taxes for 8 years and after that im sure we will have another president who will push a new tax plan.
I hate the forum bugs.
here’s what I posted in response to @LZ.
How about the majority of tax breaks, happening for the wealthiest, NOT rolling back? So we decimate the tax revenue, get a fraction of it back from low-middle class, and we’re better for it?
Oh by the way, where will the money come from for Trump’s $1 Trillion infrastructure plan?
I’m still waiting for someone to tell me the good part…
Condensed:
Tell me why you’re supporting it.
Because, on average, I believe individuals and corporations retaining more of their income is good thing.
I’d go into details, but we’d never agree on them because we can’t agree on a premise to begin with because we’re on different ideological sides.
Since when is this thread about changing someone’s mind? I don’t need us to agree, I want to understand WHY you’re supporting it and why you think it’s actually a good thing to give PERMANENT tax breaks to wealthy Americans but TEMPORARY tax breaks to average ones.
Point taken. This is what I mean by agreeing on a premise:
… why you think it’s actually a good thing to give PERMANENT tax breaks to wealthy Americans but TEMPORARY tax breaks to average ones.
I could be wrong, but by the way you wrote this, it sounds like you believe average Americans contribute a significant amount to the federal income tax?
I could be wrong, but it looks like you’re making assumptions. Not gonna go quote myself from the other day, but I’m well aware of the proportions of taxes paid.
My question stands.
Ok cool, so we have half of all Americans not paying any federal income tax. Of the other half, the majority of the federal income tax is paid by the rich.
So it stands to reason that any federal tax cut would disproportionately benefit the group that pays the most in federal taxes.
… why you think it’s actually a good thing to give PERMANENT tax breaks to wealthy Americans but TEMPORARY tax breaks to average ones.
Individual, average Americans only get a temporary break because they’re an insignificant to the federal tax base. You, me and most of the people here are drops in the bucket.
If you want to really affect the national economy through federal taxes you need to make tax policy that involves the corporate rate. And making it permanent has the function of bringing certainty. Certainty is stability in the corporate world for reasons that should be evident enough not to need to elaboration.
I’ve posted this exact reasoning before…
If they’re insignificant then why would they need to be raised back up? And if they’re insignificant AND temporary then why are you buying the bullshit about this being ‘for the middle class?’
You’re arguing very different things throughout your post. I support the idea of lowering the corporate tax rate and closing loopholes. However, please tell me why the highest individual earners need a few more million to pass down to their spoiled kids tax free?
And making it permanent has the function of bringing certainty. Certainty is stability in the corporate world for reasons that should be evident enough not to need to elaboration.
I’m sorry, is the economy not thriving/growing right now? Under the current tax code? What stability do corporations need that they don’t currently have? I know, they need fewer regulations. That should help stability.
I’m still waiting for the answer to my question.
Just trust in Trump bud.
4% growth coming, jobs jobs jobs, he’s killin it for you.
stop complaining about the rules and just find the best seat at the table. volunteer and do some charity work if you need to ease your conscience.
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They’re not raising taxes on lower incomes. And when these temporary decreases for individuals expire (7 years?) there will be chance to renew them by whoever is in power then.
why are you buying the bullshit about this being ‘for the middle class?’
I’m not. They included the individual cuts because politically you can’t come out and tell Joe the plumber that his federal taxes don’t matter but the corporate rate does.
It includes the middle class but it’s not focused on it. Some will make the argument that the lower corporate rate will impact the middle class as well. It will in some regards, but we’ll have to wait and see because there are always unintended consequences.
please tell me why the highest individual earners need a few more million to pass down to their spoiled kids tax free?
Why assume they’re spoiled? Sure some are, but certainly not all.
And we’re talking about income with this bill not wealth.
I’m sorry, is the economy not thriving/growing right now?
A lot of what’s going on today is based on the expectation of these cuts. Indicators like the markets, business optimism, etc are all mostly forward looking. So the economy has already “placed it’s bet” that the corporate rate would be cut. Certainly if this bill failed you’d see things drop like a rock.
The issue is people being unhappy that everyone across the board go tax cuts because they think higher earners shouldn’t get them. The amazing thing about America is every 4 years there is a chance for a new plan.
It’s a philosophical difference in republican vs democrat thinking.
All the calculators seem to point to be saving a significant amount of money :tup:
^ And this is why it’s not worth debating. Some in this country believe the top 50% of earners paying 97.1% of the taxes isn’t enough, while others think they’re paying more than enough. When you have an across the board tax cut like the Republicans are about to pass of course that 50% that’s paying over 97% of the taxes is going to get a bigger cut.
@JayS better:
Yeah, I tried to edit my post to use that exact one and nyspeed locked up. Now I can’t access it at all from my desktop. Happens all the time. In an hour or so whatever thread my connection is stuck on will time out and it will be fine again. Until then I have to use my phone.
Fixed. You know that I was referring to just anything lower than the top earners.
And when these temporary decreases for individuals expire (7 years?) there will be chance to renew them by whoever is in power then.
Why wouldn’t it all be permanent? Or all sunset?
I’m not. They included the individual cuts because politically you can’t come out and tell Joe the plumber that his federal taxes don’t matter but the corporate rate does.
100% yes. This is pretty much how all big political moves are made lately.
It includes the middle class but it’s not focused on it.
This made me laugh a bit. I know what you mean but if someone were to listen to Trump, Paul Ryan, and Mitch McConnell, this thing is entirely for the middle class.
Some will make the argument that the lower corporate rate will impact the middle class as well. It will in some regards, but we’ll have to wait and see because there are always unintended consequences.
Are you ‘some?’ Are you willing to make a $1.5 Trillion bet on the goodwill of corporations and billionaires?
Why assume they’re spoiled? Sure some are, but certainly not all.
It was a joke, homie. Stay with me.
A lot of what’s going on today is based on the expectation of these cuts. Indicators like the markets, business optimism, etc are all mostly forward looking. So the economy has already “placed it’s bet” that the corporate rate would be cut. Certainly if this bill failed you’d see things drop like a rock.
Well, yeah. That’s an obvious observation. The economy was growing steadily and ramped up with the hopes of this tax bill. Investors are buying in now because once those tax breaks hit it will show up in the bottom line and their profits go up. Do you really think those profits are going towards average workers? Fuck no. It’s going to the shareholders and top management.
Let’s be honest, you don’t strengthen the economy by freeing up cash at the top and merely hoping that corporations and billionaires will piss that extra cash down on the middle class. The economy will grow by passing that money THROUGH it via the low-middle class when they have more money to spend on products and services.
Look at it this way; Company ABC gets a huge tax break and suddenly has an extra 10% in profit. However, all of the ABC’s current and potential customers retain their income so the demand for their product/services remains constant. ABC has no reason to grow and create jobs. It will just pay out more to shareholders and have better metrics to talk about. Looking at top individual earners there’s pretty much zero chance of their extra money doing anything to help the economy.
I still haven’t gotten the answer to my question.
You guys are actually posting that beer analogy… #forwardsfromgrandma
:picard:
Im just happy I might not owe the feds for the first time in years.
Maybe we should increase taxes by the amounts republicans want to reduce and everything will get better?
