Honestly, not that anyone really cares about gas Mileage here, but I don’t see why 26MPG is a big deal? My C5 and C6 could do that or better on the highway so I was actually expecting to see a 30MPG with that technology…
I wish they would have picked a different name. It is going to get confusing when people ask me what motor I run. I understand that GM likes to reuse names after a while but it hasn’t been long enough IMO. I wish they would have used LX1 instead.
Joe
October 24, 2012, 4:16pm
23
So what are the chances of a few of them falling off the truck in Tonawanda?
LZ1
October 24, 2012, 4:45pm
24
They did the same thing with the LS6 obviously over a longer time period
Don’t know why new gens can’t come up with new fucking code
Yah three generations of LT1s right?
There is a guy on LS1 tech saying GM is making the ECU pretty much impossible to tune. If that is so, its such a bad idea.
LZ1
October 25, 2012, 8:13am
26
Eh its just matter of time
If they go with that ECU in trucks + F-bodys someone will figure it out.
95dime
October 25, 2012, 8:58am
27
ultradriver10000:
Yah three generations of LT1s right?
There is a guy on LS1 tech saying GM is making the ECU pretty much impossible to tune. If that is so, its such a bad idea.
dodge did that in 2011. almost 2013 now and still no tuner. if gm does it dont expect people to be able to tune them anytime soon
theblue
October 25, 2012, 9:20am
28
does LS mean anything? how about LT?
9c1ny
October 25, 2012, 9:26am
29
just RPO codes, no meaning
theblue
October 25, 2012, 9:42am
30
is there at least a scheme to it, or just random?
LZ1
October 25, 2012, 9:47am
31
Nobody gives a fuck about dodge?
The market share for dodge aftermarket is extremely small compared to the GM world.
If your doing anything really crazy you can just piggyback it anyways.
I’m pretty sure LS1edit didn’t come out for GM shit till 1999? and LS1s came out in 1997 usually these things take time.
Someone needs to get a hold of whatever the dealer uses to reprogram PCMs and start from that point
I did an economics paper year ago on local economy and used an article that referenced another motor that they were planning on bringing to Tonawanda by 2014. Maybe this is it? Either way, t-up for production in Buffalo.
'murica.
95dime
October 25, 2012, 10:03am
34
Nobody gives a fuck about dodge?
The market share for dodge aftermarket is extremely small compared to the GM world.
If your doing anything really crazy you can just piggyback it anyways.
meh, my ram is a hell of alot better then the gm counterpart stock for stock. dodge has come a long ways recently.
also, fuck you. what im saying is if gm does the same thing and puts military level encryption on their computers to lock em down from tuning then it is not easy for the aftermarket to adapt. it has been 3 years and they still havent figured it out. word is bullydog bought the information from dodge and they still havent finished their tuner for it to be available and the rest of the aftermarket still hasnt figured it out. if gm does this it will probably be just as difficult. you cant piggy back it, you would have to go complete stand alone or use an older computer IF it will work for the motor. with either of those 2 options you lose your warrenty. alot of people that want tuners want them to work with the factory computer so they can still try to get in under warrenty if something happened.
LZ1
October 25, 2012, 10:03am
35
Military level encryption :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
More people + More potential profit = Things get done faster.
The majority of time its not about breaking encryption its about accessing some key/password stored somewhere or brute forcing the key to decrypt whatever.
95dime
October 25, 2012, 10:05am
36
“military level encryption” is what theyre calling it. the aftermarket has been unable to figure out the coding to even get into the computers.
LZ1
October 25, 2012, 10:10am
37
I’m glad a bunch of car people who are not security people made the determination on the level and complexity of the security features.
My understanding of the issue from reading HPtuners etc was they can access the computer but the segments of data they attempt to access are encrypted.
theblue
October 25, 2012, 10:29am
38
there is money on the table, somebody’s gonna grab that cash.
Check it out. I don’t know this guy or what he does.
Allow me to explain why it will be tough to crack the ECM. The ECM uses a “public key encryption”/ Stateful connection to prevent tampering from gear heads. To better understand why it will be nearly impossible to crack. The ECM uses (TLS) transport layer protocol allows the ECM and fuel table applications to communicate across a data network via the internet back to GM in a way designed to prevent listening and tampering. This is for your protection and safety. The public key encryption on this ECM requires 2 keys. One to access the servers here at GM and once the integrity is validate then a second key encryption is provide to the ECM within the vehicle to allow diagnostics & restore of the fuel tables & fuel event system. Many of you will have questions about (YOUR PROTECTION). I will get in front of the ball and explain.
The ECM controls the exact point in time the fuel control solenoids closes. What this means you need a very fast computer to control the High Pressure Fuel solenoid cycles which is contained on the high pressure cam driven pump itself. (This ECM is basically a small PC with applications)
The ECM needs the crankshaft and cam position, fuel pressure sensor value to be
The fuel system consist of low pressure side (pump in fuel tank) and High Pressure Fuel Pump (camshaft driven by lobe). The High Pressure Solenoid on the pump has zero errors. The ECM monitors the High Pressure Solenoid On/Off signaling duty cycles in real time as an added measure of security (VOLTS & AMPS). Thus this is the learning curve, reason for this is to actuate the fuel pressure control solenoid at a specific camshaft degree value of rotation learned. Self contained ECM system the system will lock if tampered the solenoid will remain open, fuel is then returned back to the fuel inlet and no pressure or volume will be seen. For your safety the engine will not start.
with regards,
Bigg_Gunz
Sorry for speaking in Geek.
The best way for everyone to understand this is… the safety measures are all software related with numerous fail safes in place to prevent tuning all together. The ECM works fine for basic codes diagnostics. If you wish to gain access to the FUEL TABLES for tuning. It requires 2 encrypted digital keys. One from the GM service dept to access GM Servers once connected… the GM Server sends the 2nd key to the ECM for diagnostics of the fuel event system. The High Pressure Solenoid is monitored real time for fuel pressure and volume, also volt and amps aka duty cycles are real time monitored. A drop or increase in volt or amps results in NO STARTS. The FUEL TABLE is NOT ADJUSTABLE in any form or fashion. With regards… running a high pressure external pump will not work. The high pressure control solenoid must be concurrent. Refer to post 21 for reasons why.
Thanks,
Bigg Gunz
“anthony”
GM does not want to kill high rodding or high performance. You have misunderstood public safety. Roughly 2200 psi of 87 - 93 octane fuel under significant pressure is nothing less then explosives. Inaccurate timing adjustment of spark, fuel injectors, High pressure fuel solenoids cycles, crankshaft,cam variable valve timing, gear,load,converter,abs,wheel speed all plays a major role then throw in displacement on demand. This is not something even the best tuners would willing take on. The lack of understanding in these systems makes Direct injection dangerous. Disabling DOD is no longer and option for Dealers special codes are now need for that as well. The ECM is essentially isn’t alone anymore to accept tuning.
YOUR SAFETY MATTERS.
Bigg Gunz
“puck”
I can assure you the ECM will not be tunable.
No one has been had or trolled here. As I’ve stated something very very power is on the horizon for a GM vehicle. The heads are the real potential there is significant reasoning in reversing the intake and exhaust valves. And going to a 12.5 degree valve angle with raised ports.
“puck”
Keep faith in GM.
regards,
Bigg Gunz
“Rob”
The fuel event system will not be tunable in the after market…why are someone people not understanding that the fuel tables concerning this particular engine is completely and totally off limits? The ECM is only tunable from GM servers if and when problems arises as a virtual client ECM.
Sure the someone can develop a standalone ECM to run the engine. But only after research, reversing engineering and then development. Find a supplier of quality electronic components and boards. Then you have to deal with testing and regression analysis. This ECM uses a superior processor. The cost of this is substantial far out weight any performance gains for the consumer. If possible wait until the official outputs on the LT1 VVT are out. If this engine isn’t enough in power something on the horizon will tickle your heart.
Stay positive this isn’t the end all of performance.
This is for your safety.
Bigg Gunz
Good Morning to all,
A stand alone or piggy back system will not work simply because you would need access to the fuel tables. Diesels and Gasoline aren’t the same and I can explain the major differences electrical and software wise. Putting a resistor in place will not work. The ECM monitors volts and amps real time to the HIGH PRESSURE SOLENOID. So a change in either results in a no start. Electricity has an independent and unique signature at a given volt and also at a given amp will it equate to cycles “opening and off” duties. If either is change in valve it will result in a no start.
Everyone is hopeful that the aftermarket will reverse engineer the ECM system to gain performance is overly hopeful and misplaced. Let have a look at the facts.
The beloved “Opti spark” given for factory performance it was one of the best ignition systems to enter mass production. There are many bad & sad stories surrounding the device, however there isn’t a more accurate timing event system for a gasoline engine afterwards. Getting to the point… Everyone knew the opti spark was the bee’s knee’s in the 93-97 LT1 gear heads and aftermarkets as well.
The aftermarket put out upgrades for the opti sparks with mods such (better quality encoders for the 360 degree wheel and bearings for the spline drive) better rotor caps & terminals. Sounded good but, anyone that that upgraded soon figured out aftermarket opti spark units aren’t anymore reliable than OEM units. LT1 gear heads are more prone to use OEM units than pay for aftermarket today.
Sure the 93-97 LT1 was tunable in the aftermarket. But the aftermarket never redesign the Ignition System of the LT1 eliminating the Opti Spark all together. So of you might say well a few company’s have done and succeeded. No they have not… they still use OEM coils, crank position,cam position sensors and run either a LS1 PCM or NorthStar Ignition System for the LT1. Then add a convert box for timing ability of multi sparks and such.
Why is that? Well it’s all dealing with volts,ohms, amps events of the Ignition Control Module, the Encoder itself, Fuel Pressure Regulator within the PCM of LT1 yesterday. Electrical Signaling is everything the frequency in which these senors operate are known by many but understood by very few.
Thus the 20 year old LT1 today is still around with no solution other than drill the intake apply an after market cam drive distributor, or LS1 PCM or NorthStar Ignition system with a Converter box for conversion of the frequency of electrical sensor components in a fashion that allows the spark to sync with the fuel injectors.
Most any aftermarket developers know that it is more cost effective to work with OEM electronics and sensors than pay for reserve engineering and regression testing. Millions of dollars other wise. The technology existed and still exist to eliminate the opti spark. No one will foot the development cost the market isn’t that large. Cost out weights profits margins = NO GO.
The technology within this ECM and understanding the engine system makes it truly not tunable. Converting the engine to a LS3 isn’t a cost effective option.
Bigg Gunz
“slingshot”
I don’t have to read car forums to understand this particular ECM or the development behind the software system sir. No repeating information was done no additional comments will be addressed concerning that.
Saying the LT1 PCM is limited is simply implying I don’t understand why its limited. Once again… you curve to adjustment of 24x conversion which is using GM developed component & system, Using the PCM is GM development. It is not aftermarket which is the point that eludes you.
Competence plays a key in understanding variables.
Bigg Gunz
I will suspend the question of who I work for obvious ramifications will ensue. I cannot speak on roles pertaining to any individual including or excluding myself. As for the development of this system.
I will explain…without specifics but I have full confidence that you will be able to understand what is being stated.
As I’ve stated… The ECM and please refer to these as the ECM’s is Now a virtual client. The ECM has a microprocessor that is now virtualize. Unlike before… What that means is means is the ENGINE MANAGEMENT DEVELOPERS put more than one operating system on this single processor. The hypervisor separates between each OS. The OS modeling through a new authoring feature and IP specification import function. Through TLS and TLM as well as can be used in a wide variety of applications including systems such as engine and transmission control, braking systems, power steering systems, chassis domain control, airbags, advanced driver assistance systems, and infotainment systems.
The virtualization easily allows the system to overwrite any changes or deny unauthorized access. This ECM contains software tools enabling greater visibility and controllability into the system software execution.
Bigg Gunz
