US Rep Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422.html?hpid=topnews

Tucson - Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot and critically wounded Saturday morning while hosting an event outside a Tucson grocery store, according to local news reports, a tragic turn of events after an unusually heated campaign season.
President Obama said in a statement that some people had died in the shooting, and that Giffords was “gravely wounded.” Federal law enforcement sources said that John M. Roll, the senior U.S. District judge in Arizona, was shot and killed.
The Pima County Sheriff’s office said that five others including a child had died, and a total of 18 people were injured.
C.J. Karamargin, Giffords’ spokesman, told the Washington Post on Saturday afternoon that Giffords was in surgery. Earlier in the afternoon, CNN and NPR reported that she had died.
A 22-year old man was taken into custody after being tackled by people on the scene after the shooting. One pistol was recovered and it had what police described as “an extended clip.”
Giffords, who in November narrowly won reelection to a third term, was hosting her first “Congress on Your Corner” event when a gunman ran up and began shooting her and others in her entourage with a Glock handgun, according to law enforcement sources. The gunman is in custody.
According to a local news report, Giffords was shot in the head at point-blank range. She was taken to University Medical Center in Tucson, but was reported to have been responsive immediately after the shooting.
“We do not yet have all the answers. What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society,” Obama said. “I ask all Americans to join me and Michelle in keeping Representative Giffords, the victims of this tragedy, and their families in our prayers.”
Last March, Giffords was one of ten House Democrats who were the subject of harassment over their support for the national health care overhaul. At the time, the front door of Giffords’ Tucson office had been shattered in an early morning incident.
Giffords had been a top target by Republicans in the 2010 midterm elections, but managed to win a tough re-election battle against a tea party candidate.
The up-and-coming lawmaker, known as a moderate Democrat who paid close attention to constituent concerns, had been singled out by Sarah Palin’s SarahPac as one of the 20 Democrats on the ballot in November who represented states that supported Sen. John McCain for president in 2008. “It’s time to take a stand,” Palin’s fundraising appeal said of Giffords and the other Democrats, who had all supported the health-care bill.
House Speaker John Boehner (R.Ohio) put out a statement saying: “I am horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords… An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society.”

Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi also said in a statement that “Congresswoman Giffords is a brilliant and courageous Member of Congress, bringing to Washington the views of a new generation of national leaders. It is especially tragic that she was attacked as she was meeting with her constituents whom she serves with such dedication and distinction.”
NPR reported that Giffords was talking to a couple outside of a local Safeway when the suspect ran up and fired indiscriminately from about four feet away. The man, described by witnesses as in his late teens or early 20s, was tackled when he tried to flee the scene. Police confirmed that a young man was in custody in connection with the shooting.
The “Congress on Your Corner” program was popular among Democrats elected in recent years from swing districts, as a way of keeping in regular contact with local concerns. The event was the first of Giffords’ third term; she took the oath of office for the 112th Congress on Tuesday.
Arizona has been a political hotbed in recent months, especially after the state approved last April restrictive immigration laws that became a conservative rallying cry.
Giffords is a member of the House Blue Dog Democrat coalition, a bloc of moderate and conservative Democrats whose ranks were ravaged by losses in November. Her husband is astronaut Mark E. Kelly.
Her 8th congressional district borders Mexico, and Giffords was judicious in her response to the Arizona immigration law, describing it as a “clear calling that the federal government needs to do a better job.”
This was not the first time someone brought a gun to a Giffords event. A protester in August brought a gun to Giffords’ Congress on Your Corner event in Douglas. Police were alerted after he dropped the firearm.
“When you represent a district that includes the home of the O.K. Corral and Tombstone, ‘the Town Too Tough to Die,’ nothing’s a surprise out in Cochise County,” Giffords, D-Ariz., said Tuesday in an interview with The Arizona Republic Editorial Board.
The man in question shouted “some pretty disparaging comments,” Giffords said, but “at no point did I ever feel in danger and at no point did I ever feel there was a problem.”
Giffords is a former Arizona state senate and house member who had previously served as president of a tire company founded by her father. She was a top recruit in 2006 by Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee chairman Rahm Emanuel, viewed as the type of young, middle-of-the-road candidate with crossover appeal. She is a Spanish speaker whose hobbies include motorcycle racing.
Giffords beat a crowded Democratic primary field in 2006, and won 54 percent of the vote in the general election against immigration opponent Randy Graf, to succeed retiring Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.). She easily won re-election in 2008.
But the immigration debate sparked by the legal crackdown in her home state became a defining issue in Giffords’ campaign last year. She denounced the law as “extreme” and has supported legislation to provide a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrations. But she supported a Republican effort to add National Guard troops along the border, and opposed a crusade led by her homestate colleague Rep. Raul Grijalva (D) to boycott Arizona businesses, in protest of the state law.

So Palin puts a picture of this chick with a crosshair on her, next thing you know one of her merry band of gun-toting idiots takes it literally. Commence backpedaling and scrubbing of SarahPAC web site. Between this and the immigration law, Arizona is really on a roll lately.
Get well soon :frowning:

i heard about that Palin thing but not in relation to this… so she had a map with targets on it?

Has she commented at all?

I also heard on the news that they think the gunmen did not act alone.

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found it:

lol…

when Twitter exploded with news of the attack on Giffords, Sarah Palin was busy tweeting about the price of gold.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5336799404_33e4c0d657_o.png

Yeah they asked her dad if she had any enemies that he thought could have been behind it and he said “Yeah, the entire Tea Party.”
Irony: when the House read the Constitution this week, her line:
“…Or the right of the people peaceably to assemble…”

Are you kidding? lol, anyone seriously thinking this kid was right-wing / Sarah Palin motivated is an ass.

Look at his Facebook page. Watch his YouTube videos. Read his words and not the media spin. The kid’s simply a nut. WTF does this mean: “Your economy is not my economy!!!”

Although…

  • He’s an Atheist. Aren’t Most Liberals Aithiest?
  • He doesn’t agree with the Constitutions “Treasonous laws.” Don’t most Liberals think the Constitution is imperfect and should be changed?
  • His favorite books are the communist manifesto and Mein Kampf…
  • He doesn’t like the Jews and Israel. Isn’t Giffords Jewish and don’t most Liberals think the Palestinians have gotten a deal?

[sarcasm]OMG SOUNDS LIKE A CRAZY LIBERAL!!![/sarcasm]

See what I did there? I linked this crazy person to a political belief where there were no direct links! I’m a genius! I’m going to go apply for Paul Krugmans job, lol.

And Sarah Palin’s target map? How about the Democrat Leadership Council target map from 2004:

http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/images/DLC-Targeting-map%5B1%5D.gif

Or the Democrat’s Congressional Campaign Committee’s website last year:

http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/images/DCCC-target-map%5B1%5D.jpg
http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/images/DCCC-targeted-republican%5B1%5D.jpg

But back on topic; it’s really said that news reporters and political junkies have to make assumptions about his motivations. The media hates Sarah Palin so much that they’ll link her to global warming if they could, lol. This is a 22 year old who probably never even heard about Sarah Palin let alone visited her web site.

Bottom line; You can’t rationalize and irrational act. And there is absolutely no link between this kid and Sarah Palin, the tea party, republicans, etc. as of this moment. Everything right now is just speculation.

We will have to see once more comes out.
The main thing with the Palin connection is she appeals to stupid people with guns. Regardless of political beliefs, it sounds like he was a stupid person with guns. Thanks to Arizona’s lax gun laws, purchasing one legally wasn’t a problem.

He hasn’t talked yet. I’ll be interested to see what he has to say when he does.
One lost story in this was the guy who saved her, and 3 others, Daniel Hernandez, the guy in the red collar. Openly gay Hispanic college student who had been her intern for 5 days. He had CNA training and ran into the gunfire to help, propped her up to prevent choking, and got the wound in her head compressed long enough for the ambalamps to arrive.
http://mylatinovoice.com/images/stories/daniel_hernandez_giffords_intern_copy.png

How do you know that this kid even knows Sarah Palin exists?

You’re using backward logic to make the connection: “He’s a stupid person with a gun, so he must know Sara Palin.” The only fact we know is that he’s a stupid person with a gun. So you’re taking that one fact and making an assumption based on your political disposition.

I can do the same thing:

“Rap music appeals to stupid people with guns. Therefore rap music must be responsible for any inner city shootings.”

What’s the difference between “Sarah Palin made me do it!” and “50 Cent said shoot the police!”

You see how silly that sounds?

I didn’t say that he knows Palin exists. I said that’s what makes people jump to that assumption. Whether it turns out to be true or not, without knowing anything about this guy when the story first broke, most people including the media would take a bet that he had some type of Palin/Tea Party affiliation.

If George Bush got whacked in Compton, the rap music stories would already be top billing on Fox News.

'Cmon Joe, you’re better than this, lol.

You stated in your first post that he was “one of her merry band.”

At least now you’re admitting it’s an assumption :slight_smile:

Yep, I assumed he was one of her merry band, he may just be a gun-toting idiot party of one. If my assumption turns out wrong, I’ll be glad to admit it. But the signs are all there. If they don’t turn out to be, I’ll just use the Limbaugh-Beck-Palin-O’Reilly-Hannity strategy and keep repeating the lie until people believe it. :slight_smile:

What signs though? How are you linking him to a political ideology as his motive?

The irony is strong here. The people calling for an end to such divisive political rhetoric didn’t even wait for the blood to be washed off the sidewalks to start blaming the right, Sarah Palin and the Tea Party for this.

Never mind that the shooter’s past videos and writings really don’t label him as a right winger anyway.

But yeah, way to call for ratcheting down the political bullshit by piling political bullshit on a tragedy like this. Classy as always far left and far right wing. :tup:

I jumped the gun linking him to political ideology, but like I said at the time the signs were all there.
1.) He was following, albeit a bit too literally, a message her campaign put out.
2.) It happened in Arizona, where she was a progressive in a state with a lot of far-righties and a huge gun lobby. She was a known target of the Tea Party and had her office attacked and vandalized by them before. If he turns out to be a far-lefty Marxist, why not go after McCain or Brewer? Maybe I’m off here trying to apply rationality to understand an unstable thought process.
3.) Ideology aside, one of the main results of the Tea Party’s rhetoric is unharnessed, irrational anger with elected officials, particularly of the Democratic variety. He may just be crazy, or have a personal grudge against her. But that’s impossible to know until he talks.

4.) We have a little more information now and hindsight is 20/20. We still don’t have the full story yet. When the only news available is that a young white male in Arizona shot a Democratic rep whom SarahPAC put ads out with crosshairs on her, which was when I made my post, how is that not a sign?

I’m out, my tolerance for irrational bullshit must be lower than normal.

Ok, then link / show me to the proof that he had accessed the “target” portion of Palin’s website and was following her campaign message.

How do you know he was following her campaign when you yourself admitted you’re only assuming he knew Palin even existed?

So you assume because a Democrat was shot he must have been on the other side of the political spectrum?

What’s worse: making the same assumptions you’re making or me assuming that his former friend is telling the truth about his personal political beliefs:

At that time, she said, he was very philosophical and leaned to the ‘left.’ She said, “For the Bush/Kerry election we all wore “1 term president” buttons. That election was HUGE to us.”

He had actually met Gabrielle Giffords in ‘07, and after asking her a question, told Caitie later that Gifford was “stupid and unintelligent.” The question he asked Giffords, Caitie said, “was odd & didn’t make sense, I can’t remember what it was. Just know it was weird.”

According to Caitie, at the time she knew him, he was left wing, quite liberal, and “oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.” “He wore shirts & bracelets about it. & liked to discuss 2012 w/ everyone!”

Their group was “liberal in wanting to change the way the world was run, we both wanted to. He took it to an extreme I never would’ve.” She said he was a “political radical” long before the teaparty, Glenn Beck, or Sarah Palin came on the scene.

Caitie also said he was a pot head and was into the music of Hendrix, The Doors, and Anti-Flag. “We listened to political punk in high school & agreed with their leftist opinions for the most part. Anti-Flag was our band.”

http://twitter.com/caitieparker

Sounds like a tea-party guy for sure. Probably had Palin’s website bookmarked, lol :slight_smile:

But in seriousness this chick could just be making all this up for attention. And the story is still very new. My point is stop jumping to conclusions about his motivation until everything comes out.

Fair enough. I can do that. But picture talk radio and Fox News today if this was Michelle Bachmann or Jim DeMint and the shooting was in a blue state by a black guy, even if his MySpace suggested that his favorite authors were conservatives.

It doesn’t matter what the media says (or spins) it shouldn’t stop your ability for critical thinking.

His book list BTW;

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/JaredLeeLoughner_YoutubeChannelInterests.jpg

I’ve read some of these books too, lol.

:tup: to Obama for not pretty much telling those blaming Palin, etc to chill out.

… at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do, it’s important for us to pause for a moment…

… it is not because a simple lack of civility caused this tragedy; it did not.

There is still nothing to link this kid to any political ideology as a motive.

Sounds like he’s been a creeper for a long time and even kept a dream journal because he was interested in lucid dreaming. There are almost too many signs of “crazy” for this kid and IMO when the college calls and tells you that you need a mental evaluation in order to return to school, something might be wrong.

The psychiatric angle;

It seems clear that Jared Loughner was developing a mental illness in the two years or so before the Tucson killings, but which one? Many signs point to one of the psychotic disorders—delusional disorder, say, or schizophrenia, for which the average age of onset is roughly 20, about when Loughner started showing symptoms of nonsensical speech and disorganized thoughts…

“No single variable explains violence in schizophrenia… Rather, violent behavior occurs within a social–ecological system involving a ‘whole person’ with a particular life history and state of health.” In short, saying Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck caused Loughner’s actions is, to put it charitably, completely idiotic.

PBS had a good segment with mental health pros;

The “girlfriend broke up with me” angle;

“My breaking up with him was not the cause of him going off the rails but it was definitely the start of it,” she told the Mail.

“Something changed in him, he was not the same person when I told him it was over,” she added. “I remember his face clearly — he just looked like he had nothing to live for. It was my first relationship and it was his first relationship.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41053261/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

I could go on but there is almost too many stories out there about his antics. He was even kicked off an internet forum;

he wrote under the screen name Erad in often incoherent and misspelled posts.

Other members of the group, who worked together as a team in the online game Earth Empires, were perplexed by his outbursts.

“I have no idea what you’re talking about 50% of the time,” wrote one member. “Is that rap? cause i’m not a fan of it.”

Almost sounds like some members here :eekdance:

Josh wins this one…

mostly because it doesnt involve me though.

Hope she pulls through… if she does, she gonna be prezzy!!

The terrible violence in Arizona last weekend prompted much national discussion on many issues. All Americans are united in their sympathies for the victims and their families. All wonder what could motivate such a horrible act. However, some have attempted to use this tragedy to discredit philosophical adversaries or score political points. This sort of opportunism is simply despicable.

We are fortunate to live in a society where violence is universally denounced. Not one public official or commentator has attempted to justify this reprehensible act, yet the newspapers, internet, and airwaves are full of people trying to claim it was somehow motivated by someone else’s political rhetoric. Most disturbing are the calls to use government power to censor certain forms of speech, and even outlaw certain types of criticism of public officials. This was the completely apolitical act of a violent and disturbed man. How sad that the attempted murder of the Congresswoman who had just read the First Amendment on the House floor would be used in efforts to chill free speech! Perhaps some would feel safer if the Alien and Sedition Acts were reinstated.

Also troubling are the renewed calls for stricter gun control laws, and for government to “do something” to somehow prevent similar incidents in the future. This always seems to be the knee jerk reaction to any crime committed with a gun. Nonsensical proposals to outlaw guns around federal officials and install bulletproof barriers in the congressional gallery only reinforce the growing perception that politicians view their own lives as far more important than the lives of ordinary citizens. Politicians and a complicit media have conditioned many citizens to view government as our protector, leading to more demands for government action whenever tragedies occur. But this impulse is at odds with the best American traditions of self-reliance and individualism, and it also leads to bad laws and the loss of liberty.

Remember - liberty only has meaning if we still believe in it when terrible things happen and more government security is demanded. Government cannot make us safe by mandating security any more than it can make us prosperous by decreeing an end to poverty.

We need to reaffirm the core American value of individual responsibility. Consider the young man who had the courage to tackle the shooter and prevent further carnage because he himself had a concealed weapon. Without that gun, he could have been yet another sitting duck. When peaceful citizens are armed, they at least have a chance against armed criminals.

Advocates of gun control would urge us to leave our safety to law enforcement, but eyewitness reports indicate it took police as much as 20 minutes to arrive on the scene that day! Since police cannot be everywhere all of the time, a large part of our personal safety depends on our ability to defend ourselves.

Our constitutional right to bear arms does not create a society without risks of violent crime, and neither would the strictest gun control laws. Guns and violence are a fact of life. The question is whether it is preferable to be defenseless while waiting for the police, or to have the option to arm yourself. We certainly know criminals prefer the former.

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-Ron Paul

Ron Paul is the man but how does he or anyone else explain the gross disparity between US gun crime rates and those of every other Western nation?