ADMIN: 'leadership' change >> moved to MEMBERS

[bing]

I just want to keep this thread salient because despite the length of it, i anticipate there being no immediate change as a result of it and let me tell you why.

whom ever it is that is proposing the change will show no initiative and actually go out and prompt the change. Instead they will throw blame from the sidelines at people like G who is not expected to make this a race oriented forum, instead who is entrusted to handle the behind the scenes functions of the forum… at people like me who is also not qualified to turn this into a race oriented forum etc.

still more, no viable alternative has been presented for the financial matters of the club. We, the admin, are already aware that the banking and financials needs to be remedied and the rest of you have acknowledged that as well with no solution.

a bank account with one of the 5 majors with $10 fees per month will cost us $120 a year and the club account is not likely to get over $500 anyways… so that is not a solution. a solution is a fee free bank account that is accessible all around Ontario, ie. a major bank.

there has been butt-loads of talk of starting up another round of membership fees… numbers of how much should be charged have been thrown around without any substance being offered as to what anyone will receive in return.

and the list continues…

but the purpose of this post is two fold… firstly to be skeptical of those that suggest change without content and secondly to irk these same people enough to actually start to do something about it.

the problems are clear, i dont have specific suggestions for how to achieve them otherwise we would have already. this then becomes a great opportunity for certain people to step up and solve the problems.

how about instead of just voting random people into the admin to join in on the ineffectiveness we promote the ones that prove they can actually solve problems first.

[TM1]

@bing

I just want to keep this thread salient because despite the length of it, i anticipate there being no immediate change as a result of it and let me tell you why.

whom ever it is that is proposing the change will show no initiative and actually go out and prompt the change. Instead they will throw blame from the sidelines at people like G who is not expected to make this a race oriented forum, instead who is entrusted to handle the behind the scenes functions of the forum… at people like me who is also not qualified to turn this into a race oriented forum etc.

still more, no viable alternative has been presented for the financial matters of the club. We, the admin, are already aware that the banking and financials needs to be remedied and the rest of you have acknowledged that as well with no solution.

a bank account with one of the 5 majors with $10 fees per month will cost us $120 a year and the club account is not likely to get over $500 anyways… so that is not a solution. a solution is a fee free bank account that is accessible all around Ontario, ie. a major bank.

there has been butt-loads of talk of starting up another round of membership fees… numbers of how much should be charged have been thrown around without any substance being offered as to what anyone will receive in return.

and the list continues…

but the purpose of this post is two fold… firstly to be skeptical of those that suggest change without content and secondly to irk these same people enough to actually start to do something about it.

the problems are clear, i dont have specific suggestions for how to achieve them otherwise we would have already. this then becomes a great opportunity for certain people to step up and solve the problems.

how about instead of just voting random people into the admin to join in on the ineffectiveness we promote the ones that prove they can actually solve problems first.

That and the fact they can expect opposition from you on most subjects… and that in itself drags issues on for weeks…

It happened last time…

[AnDrEw]

@TM

[quote=bing]I just want to keep this thread salient because despite the length of it, i anticipate there being no immediate change as a result of it and let me tell you why.

whom ever it is that is proposing the change will show no initiative and actually go out and prompt the change. Instead they will throw blame from the sidelines at people like G who is not expected to make this a race oriented forum, instead who is entrusted to handle the behind the scenes functions of the forum… at people like me who is also not qualified to turn this into a race oriented forum etc.

still more, no viable alternative has been presented for the financial matters of the club. We, the admin, are already aware that the banking and financials needs to be remedied and the rest of you have acknowledged that as well with no solution.

a bank account with one of the 5 majors with $10 fees per month will cost us $120 a year and the club account is not likely to get over $500 anyways… so that is not a solution. a solution is a fee free bank account that is accessible all around Ontario, ie. a major bank.

there has been butt-loads of talk of starting up another round of membership fees… numbers of how much should be charged have been thrown around without any substance being offered as to what anyone will receive in return.

and the list continues…

but the purpose of this post is two fold… firstly to be skeptical of those that suggest change without content and secondly to irk these same people enough to actually start to do something about it.

the problems are clear, i dont have specific suggestions for how to achieve them otherwise we would have already. this then becomes a great opportunity for certain people to step up and solve the problems.

how about instead of just voting random people into the admin to join in on the ineffectiveness we promote the ones that prove they can actually solve problems first.

That and the fact they can expect opposition from you on most subjects… and that in itself drags issues on for weeks…

It happened last time…[/quote]

If SON wants to become CASC affiliated I would get involved, because it would benefit myself. If not, I’ll sit back and watch as always.

The involvement to accomplish such a thing would require a complete reorganization and membership fees going up a touch.

http://www.casc.on.ca/documents/clubaffiliation.pdf

Derek’s track days could be our club events, even though I hate Dunnville, Derek has organized many events that the involved sonlings have gone to.

Thats the only way the club could become more motorsport oriented.

Andrew.

[GT1]

clearly nothing will ever change… its SON…

GT

[AnDrEw]

@GT

clearly nothing will ever change… its SON…

GT

exactly.

Bing, if you charge membership fees again so i can be a part of this “member forum” I’m not paying.

My money is going www.omsc.ca/ so I can race in solosprints next year and have access to mosport track days.

Andrew.

[bing]

@TM

That and the fact they can expect opposition from you on most subjects… and that in itself drags issues on for weeks…

It happened last time…

if the requiring of specifics with regards to any issue and participation from the people who propose such changes is what you call opposition then i think you need to go pick up a dictionary mr. pretengineer.

if you recall, it was a unanimous decision to remove you from admin, not mine alone so dont get all snooty with me.

here you are supporting the same changes as Adam and Andrew etc. etc and getting all mad that they dont happen even though you do nothing to make it happen.

if CASC affiliation is what you guys want then make it happen.

if you want money from people who wont benefit from it then i think you need to broaden the appeal. You also need to articulate how you would integrate CASC affiliation into a club where 95% of its members will not make use of such an affiliation and try to justify why we should increase membership donation requirements for an affiliation that they wont benefit from.

this is the root of my problem when this was proposed years back. this is a 240sx club, not a CASC club and not a club of 240sx owners who want to be CASC affiliated.

not opposing a blind march into CASC affiliation and is accompanying increases in members fees and an incorporation is BAD decision making.

if you guys can convince the member base that this is a good idea and gain funding from them then of course i would not oppose it because it would be what they want and it would have support of somewhat of a majority. i would even pitch in my share, not because i would use it but because i am a part of this club…

but you havent done that, you havent planned on doing it and you wont do it because it is alot of work that from this vantage point at this time at noon on DEC 13, 2006 doesnt appear to benefit any but a few. if that changes then so will my attitude towards it.

i am not opposed to CASC affiliation and i would even help integrate into SON… but not because 3 people say this club is shit and that CASC affiliation will fix it.

[bing]

@AnDrEw

exactly.

Bing, if you charge membership fees again so i can be a part of this “member forum” I’m not paying.

My money is going www.omsc.ca/ so I can race in solosprints next year and have access to mosport track days.

Andrew.

for your information Andrew i was opposed to those fees… not for them.

if you want admin access so that you can view who was for it and who was against it then that can be arranged.

and “I” dont charge fees and “I” never have. However, i have collected unsolicited donations.

[roast]

Bing,

Issue: Andy being president.
Solution:

1. Remove Andy from presidency.
2. Hold forum wide votes for candidates
3. Vote candidates into open non-descript leadership spots
4. Leaders decide on who is appropriate for President
5. Vote for president as decided by leaders
6. Have leadership divide other responsibilities

Edit:

As a side note, we could just remove his involvement altogether and leave it at that, however it may be a setback to have no “figure-head” as president.

[roast]

@bing

if you want money from people who wont benefit from it then i think you need to broaden the appeal. You also need to articulate how you would integrate CASC affiliation into a club where 95% of its members will not make use of such an affiliation and try to justify why we should increase membership donation requirements for an affiliation that they wont benefit from.
…

What 95% population are you talking about? Forum members or paying members (past present and future)

[AnDrEw]

Bing,

the whole CASC thing can work if enough people want it to. We can have small fee for those who just want to be a member and have access to forum and a larger fee for those who would like to take a more serious roll in the club and be a part of club events.

If enough people want it, I’m more than willing to consult Adam for advice on accomplishing affiliation. Until then I don’t want to take on any responsibilities.

Also I hate to bring up money, but what exactly is the total count of payed son members from 2004-present? And exactly how much has been collected. Where does this money sit? Also, how much are hosting fee’s per month now?

I’ve been a part of a small Amateur radio club for years and it operates on almost no budget because membership has lowered. We still have meetings twice a month and 2 big club events every year. Insurance is covered by the large Canadian club we are affiliated with.

Andrew.

[Uniac]

@roast

Bing,

Issue: Andy being president.
Solution:

1. Remove Andy from presidency.
2. Hold forum wide votes for candidates
3. Vote candidates into open non-descript leadership spots
4. Leaders decide on who is appropriate for President
5. Vote for president as decided by leaders
6. Have leadership divide other responsibilities

Edit:

As a side note, we could just remove his involvement altogether and leave it at that, however it may be a setback to have no “figure-head” as president.

as i said before. You would need a vast majority of the TOTAL population of SON to make ANY vote count, Especially if the so called “club” was to be reorganized into a corporation.

As i said before. Less than 10% of Son’s total members are active in the community. Less and 3% is active in motors ports.

These changes you propose DO NOT reflect the VAST majority of the members opinions on the matter.

If the solution is as easy as a forum flip flop, adding and removing topics then fine. Add a motor sport spot. But the few that actually are involved in motor sports are far far far outweighed by those who do not.

[roast]

@lucky

[quote=roast]Bing,

Issue: Andy being president.
Solution:

1. Remove Andy from presidency.
2. Hold forum wide votes for candidates
3. Vote candidates into open non-descript leadership spots
4. Leaders decide on who is appropriate for President
5. Vote for president as decided by leaders
6. Have leadership divide other responsibilities

Edit:

As a side note, we could just remove his involvement altogether and leave it at that, however it may be a setback to have no “figure-head” as president.

as i said before. You would need a vast majority of the TOTAL population of SON to make ANY vote count, Especially if the so called “club” was to be reorganized into a corporation.

As i said before. Less than 10% of Son’s total members are active in the community. Less and 3% is active in motors ports.

These changes you propose DO NOT reflect the VAST majority of the members opinions on the matter.

If the solution is as easy as a forum flip flop, adding and removing topics then fine. Add a motor sport spot. But the few that actually are involved in motor sports are far far far outweighed by those who do not.[/quote]

Maybe I’m being a bit short sighted so let me read into your reply.

You expect that if a new president is voted in, then a major change in club direction will happen? IIRC, Andy wanted to make son240sx.ca a hardcore 240sx club concentrating on swaps/performance parts and drifting. To date, this has not come to fruition.

I expect that no changes will be made and that new people will step up to organize events (Theo?). Admins/mods will still do their job and everyone will go on their merry way with a few more things to do next summer.

Lucky, why wouldn’t you remove Andy from presidency? (Honest question, don’t read to much into it)

[Uniac]

why wouldnt i?

it’s just a title. Andrew isn’t Pres, and Bing isn’t VP.

This Isnt A corporation.

This is a car forum

The reason those title’s were used was because they were the admin. Now that has changed and the names have stayed the same. Oh well.

There is no reason to remove andrew, or bing or any of the other mods. Look at who started this notion, Birdhouse. Give me a break.

If you want to make a difference, volunteer your services at helping the admin with the front page, or host meets, get to gathers. Come up with something useful. Voting new “leaders” is not.

[roast]

@lucky

why wouldnt i?

it’s just a title. Andrew isn’t Pres, and Bing isn’t VP.

This Isnt A corporation.

This is a car forum

The reason those title’s were used was because they were the admin. Now that has changed and the names have stayed the same. Oh well.

There is no reason to remove andrew, or bing or any of the other mods. Look at who started this notion, Birdhouse. Give me a break.

If you want to make a difference, volunteer your services at helping the admin with the front page, or host meets, get to gathers. Come up with something useful. Voting new “leaders” is not.

Do away with the titles then. Done and done…

[bing]

Andrew,

i made mention of the $$$ i have right now in this thread already, i cant remember as i am at work right now but i have it in cash from the meet this year for membership donations.

as an example of how things get paid for; andrew and i use our personal credit cards to pay for domain renewals, hosting etc. for the stickers one of the members here arranged a deal with a vinyl company, paid over $200 for the stickers and i reimbursed him as per an arrangement we had made. That transaction was not out of club funds, it was out of my pocket but i attributed it essentially to paying for the vendors spot that i have and i know that most people think i didnt pay for it. it should also be noted that i paid more for it than anyone else if this is the case.

the banner was paid for by Dre years ago, the t-shirts were paid up front by Andrew and he tried to sell them to make his $$ back… he still has many unsold t-shirts and thus far has shown a loss.

things like name tags, wrist bands etc. for the meet that i throw down here at one time were out of club funds but have since been out of pocket since i ran out of club funds that i had in cash early this year.

i made mention of monthly hosting fees in another thread earlier this year when i contacted the host, if you find that thread they are plainly identified. there is full transparency of management here if people asked the right questions. i dont remember the hosting fees right now off hand.

i have nothing to do with the google ads, that is andrew, but i suspect people thought someone was pocketing the money as well since there is sooo much unwarranted suspesion going around.

[system]

@roast

Do away with the titles then. Done and done…

And what’s that exactly going to do?

[AnDrEw]

@bing

Andrew,

i made mention of the $$$ i have right now in this thread already, i cant remember as i am at work right now but i have it in cash from the meet this year for membership donations.

as an example of how things get paid for; andrew and i use our personal credit cards to pay for domain renewals, hosting etc. for the stickers one of the members here arranged a deal with a vinyl company, paid over $200 for the stickers and i reimbursed him as per an arrangement we had made. That transaction was not out of club funds, it was out of my pocket but i attributed it essentially to paying for the vendors spot that i have and i know that most people think i didnt pay for it. it should also be noted that i paid more for it than anyone else if this is the case.

the banner was paid for by Dre years ago, the t-shirts were paid up front by Andrew and he tried to sell them to make his $$ back… he still has many unsold t-shirts and thus far has shown a loss.

things like name tags, wrist bands etc. for the meet that i throw down here at one time were out of club funds but have since been out of pocket since i ran out of club funds that i had in cash early this year.

i made mention of monthly hosting fees in another thread earlier this year when i contacted the host, if you find that thread they are plainly identified. there is full transparency of management here if people asked the right questions. i dont remember the hosting fees right now off hand.

i have nothing to do with the google ads, that is andrew, but i suspect people thought someone was pocketing the money as well since there is sooo much unwarranted suspesion going around.

We need a club treasurer that keeps records off everything. I think I said it before but you are best person for that.

Just this points out the need for organization.

Anyway point taken Bing.

Andrew.

[bing]

i beleive phil offered to be the treasuerer years back, but the problem is how does one become a treasurer before we have proper bank accounts established?

sequencing is the key here and everyone is doing their best to come up with suggestions but those suggestions have pre-requisites that we havent met as of yet.

finding an efficient and FREE bank account would be one of the first things we should do. i could probably get it but only with Niagara credit union…

and then it becomes an issue of who has access. in the interest of security you want as few people as possible, but in the interest of transparancy you want more people.

after we have a bank account we can regroup the funds and then chill for a bit on that aspect and focus on something else for a bit.

what is ultimately going to happen if people keep raising a stink like this is that the current admin will run headlong into changes that are not particular well-conceived but certainly well-meaning… problem is that these changes are not likely to make a marked difference and could be regarded as ineffective and a failure even though it was pressure to try and justify the authority of admin that set them about.

this thread and threads like it are guaranteed to bring about those types of undesireable action. cooperation is required, and having these discussion in the members section as opposed to the admin section is not a bad idea, until people like bob offer their input anyways.

banking and the finances altogether is a very important issue.

as mentioned, the current club focus, or apparent lack there of, is indended to accomodate all types of activity, be it motorsport or being a huge fag head ricer… so long as it is with a 240sx.

but Andrew, it is really going to be up to guys like you, adam, sasha and even bob to make that work.

there is talk of a motorsport section being added to the VB son240sx.ca and it will be the responsibility of you guys to maintain the content of that section and to keep the events current so that there is always ample discussion.

creating that section and making sure no one abuses it is the role of moderators and admin.

[AnDrEw]

@bing

i beleive phil offered to be the treasuerer years back, but the problem is how does one become a treasurer before we have proper bank accounts established?

sequencing is the key here and everyone is doing their best to come up with suggestions but those suggestions have pre-requisites that we havent met as of yet.

finding an efficient and FREE bank account would be one of the first things we should do. i could probably get it but only with Niagara credit union…

and then it becomes an issue of who has access. in the interest of security you want as few people as possible, but in the interest of transparancy you want more people.

after we have a bank account we can regroup the funds and then chill for a bit on that aspect and focus on something else for a bit.

what is ultimately going to happen if people keep raising a stink like this is that the current admin will run headlong into changes that are not particular well-conceived but certainly well-meaning… problem is that these changes are not likely to make a marked difference and could be regarded as ineffective and a failure even though it was pressure to try and justify the authority of admin that set them about.

this thread and threads like it are guaranteed to bring about those types of undesireable action. cooperation is required, and having these discussion in the members section as opposed to the admin section is not a bad idea, until people like bob offer their input anyways.

banking and the finances altogether is a very important issue.

as mentioned, the current club focus, or apparent lack there of, is indended to accomodate all types of activity, be it motorsport or being a huge fag head ricer… so long as it is with a 240sx.

but Andrew, it is really going to be up to guys like you, adam, sasha and even bob to make that work.

there is talk of a motorsport section being added to the VB son240sx.ca and it will be the responsibility of you guys to maintain the content of that section and to keep the events current so that there is always ample discussion.

creating that section and making sure no one abuses it is the role of moderators and admin.

Sounds good.

In regards to the bank account stuff. I know Vince works for TD Canada Trust. Don’t know if he can be of some help organizing an account for the club.

Andrew.

[slipperysilvia]

i say we all go out drinking together and stress about whats important in life, not argue abot the frickin forum thats supposed to be here for fun , not to waste time !!

people get so prang over minor shit, let it slide, enjoy life…roll a doob or something…

The main issue here i feel is this:

The forum is meant for people to come in their spare time, and browse around for car stuff.

For some reason, the SON crowd, has more time on their hands then most, so the forum gets abused, and used far more then it was initially meant to be used for.

This causes, arguements, bitching, gossip and a whole bunch of other fuckery that is totally uncalled for, which then in turn causes other more mature people to be offended, and then complaints about MODS are lodged.

Mods here right now, do an amazing job, considering they do it free, and take time out of their own busy schedules.

We have an awesome forum, aLL we need to do, is keep our personal opinions about people in our heads and use the forum for what it is meant to be !

NO MORE CRYING !