Bing and Bob's Romper Room

[Axlerod]

Automotive school is good for some things… who knew?

[bing]

Bob, you actually make it sound like you know what you are talking about, it might be confusing to some who dont know the two of us personally. What makes things worse is that you have some sort of education in engineering so people will assume that you do know what you are talking about… which in many cases is true, you do know, but then you go and talk about things like rod ends that you have no experience with.

Yeah in theory you know how metals work and corrosion this and load rating that, but you haven’t ever held top quality rod ends in your hand except for when you took a look at my multi-link arms.

So when you talk about rod ends some people might assume that you know what you are talking about, problem is, that I actually have experience with rod ends and you don’t. So when it comes to rod ends, what is available on the market and what is better for which application, you really don’t know what you are talking about.

Do you know what the difference is between a high and a low misalignment rod end?

I am 100% certain that you do not, or if you do now you most certainly did not know when we were arguing about my multi-link.

How do I know that?

Well, let me quote a few things that you and Ian uttered in our famous argument about my multi-link.

@TM

My personal favorite was the parts about not needing boots on your rod ends… That just made my day…

Link here: http://www.son240sx.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22139&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

its laughable that I suggested that you don’t need dust boots?… have you ever held a dust boot in your hand? Have you ever compared a high misalignment and a low misalignment rod end in your hand?

Have you looked at the dust boot and the low misalignment rod ends that I use and tried to put the dust boot on?

Do you know what the purpose of the Kevlar / Teflon liner is?

The answer to all these questions is a resounding NO!

@BAS

what suspension type does this QA1 use?

Oh, no one knew who QA1 was… but now you do

@TM

I still think he stould try QA1… We can figure out a nice little suspension setup for you sasha… i like i like…

Are you not you glad that someone like me does the research so that you can benefit from my work?

Do you know what the rod end that Titan used was?

Because I do know what the rod end is, and I did not try to sell him QA1 rod ends because QA1 does not make a rod end that will fit his arms. I can get much better pricing on Mc-Carr than he could and that is what I would have helped him with.

Also, theo is still running those same RUCA’s in his car… why are you not celebrating those arms, seeing as how I would also be responsible for those ones too right?

Oh wait… I forgot your advice… ignore some points, focus on others… perhaps you should read your own words bob.

And why oh why do you continue to hold me responsible for parts I didn’t make?

If I am responsible for parts you say that I sold simply because I sold them then why are you not responsible for buying them and then selling them to Alex?

Whats more is that when you sold those arms that you bought you made mention of my name, calling them Bing’s RUCA’s even though you know I didn’t make them. So you misrepresented a product using my name. If you don’t think you did let me assure you that you did in fact do that because I had people asking me if I made the arms… I said no I did not make those arms and then alex got rid of them and called me up and I delivered the real ones to him at work.

If those arms you owned and modified break, is that my fault or yours? I mean, if the sole basis for assigning responsibility is the act of exchanging cash for the item then you would be as guilty as I in that case?

If your skills at re-enforcing steel are as good as your skills at re-enforcing your point then i think you should track down who bought those arms and buy them back and destroy them… maybe you could do that by trying to argue with them and the arms will jsut combust out of frustration.

How is it my fault that the product failed if I never even touched it? all I did was make sure I had the proper amount of packages, made sure the right stuff was in it and shipped it out… I may never have actually physically touched that arm… but its still my fault.

What relevance is the price of the parts?

My facts are generalized?

How about that specific example, of which I know first hand to be 100% true.

A senior management official, the same one who now owns the company that builds my arms, told me to my face what the outcome was…maybe he was generalizing as well eh?

I mean a plant shutting down because its product is now being outsourced to china is quite obviously not an example of a plant shutting down because its product was outsourced to china right? I assumed that for my own purpose right?

Ok, this is the end of this post, so I am going to end it the same way you end your posts, with a rhetorical question that insinuates dishonesty on the part of the opposition without factual support…

Why do you keep skirting the issues?

[bing]

@TM

Last time I checked you were trying to sell Titan some of the QA1 ends anyways. Which still aren’t as good of a choice as he made. Really, I just don’t think he wanted to buy cheap ends from you. I don’t blame him.

I am thinking of making this my sig.

Bob, the engineer, has just stated with this post that FK, high-misalignment, un-sealed liner, non-dust booted, M14x2 (14mm), coarse thread, commcercial grade rod ends are better than:

QA1, low-misalignment, self-sealed (read: cant use dust boots, dont need dust boots), 5/8" diameter, fine threaded, automotive-competition intended rod ends

good call buddy, you just proved 100% that you know nothing about either rod end.

Bob, how is this for a calculation: diameter of shank

5/8" rod end = .562 x 25.4 = 14.27mm diameter
China rod ends = 12.25mm diameter

14.27 - 12.25 = 2.02mm / 12.25 = 16.5%

= my rod ends are 16.50% larger in diameter, but that of course is inconsequencial right?

i think you need to remember that Titan was not looking for the best rod end he could get… he was bound by a peculiar thread pitch and so his quest was instead for the best rod end he could get in the correct thread pitch.

considering his predicament i agree 100% that he made an excellent choice though… but i base that on actually knowing what is on the market and what is available, and i could have saved him $$ on it.

you based your opinion purely on hatred for me.

[bing]

@TM

That part kills me, about the warrenty.

Read:

Bing will not cover any of his products by warrenty, if they are to break due to natural corrosion.

contact Kuah at SPL, Alex at Battleversion, Eddy at Peak Performance, anyone at JIC, Tanabe, etc. etc.

ask them if they will warranty thier RUCA if the rod end corrodes through.

i want a specific e-mail from any one of them that states that it would be unconscionable to do otherwise.

If you can prove to me unquestionably that ANY of these companies will 100% support their arms in this case then i will amend my policy.

however, even though i am certain that they wont warranty it, i can say that if i changed my policy to support warrantying in that case, i can tell you 100% that they would NOT change their policy as a result… and i would put my money where my mouth is on that one.

[Axlerod]

[TM1]

@bing

Bob, you actually make it sound like you know what you are talking about, it might be confusing to some who dont know the two of us personally. What makes things worse is that you have some sort of education in engineering so people will assume that you do know what you are talking about… which in many cases is true, you do know, but then you go and talk about things like rod ends that you have no experience with.

That’s funny coming from a you, someone who isn’t schooled in anything relating to manfucturing except for maybe, how to crunch the numbers

Yeah in theory you know how metals work and corrosion this and load rating that, but you haven’t ever held top quality rod ends in your hand except for when you took a look at my multi-link arms.

Here’s where it’s funny, I have seen and felt a good high quality rod end, and they sure as hell weren’t yours. They’re were being used in the suspension of a Lexus race car. Interestingly enough, he gave me the bearing, and shell specs. He then made mention that his rod ends were very expensive at almost $60 an end. Figure he inflated the price a little. Thats about $50 an end, and about $300 total if not more. His aren’t QA1 ends, and even he agrees, that the material in his ends wouldn’t last without a boot in the winter. He specializes in suspension geometry. He recommended stainless. That being said, his ends have lasted on the track for 2 or 3 years. You get what you pay for.

Seeings as you can buy your “top quality” rod ends from summit racing for about 5-20 a piece depending on materials and size, I’d say that your rod ends are about as high quality as anything else on a budget.

So when you talk about rod ends some people might assume that you know what you are talking about, problem is, that I actually have experience with rod ends and you don’t. So when it comes to rod ends, what is available on the market and what is better for which application, you really don’t know what you are talking about.

My experience with rod ends go as deep as your own, plus I have the background to pick what material I see that better suit the job, while you spend your time digging out statistics. And promoting the hype that is pure trash. You’re selling a bar with summit racing endlinks. People with access to a drill press can build one of these for $50 a pair no problem. Whether they wont to do that or not I’m not entirely sure.

I did, and I do, know what the difference is between the two misalignment rods, and any idiot with access to google can find out too. Because If you can do it, anyone can. And you know what the kicker is, given the way typical suspension geometry is, misalignment isn’t even that big of an issue, because if it was, then the bushings are designed for very low misalignment factory, so there is no reason to even plug a high misalignment link because it doesn’t apply. It’s just a buzzword.

Do you know what the difference is between a high and a low misalignment rod end?

Yep, in fact it’s name sounds exactly like it is. Congrats a public school dropout can see that.

I am 100% certain that you do not, or if you do now you most certainly did not know when we were arguing about my multi-link.

How do I know that?

Well, let me quote a few things that you and Ian uttered in our famous argument about my multi-link.

@TM

My personal favorite was the parts about not needing boots on your rod ends… That just made my day…

Link here: http://www.son240sx.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22139&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

its laughable that I suggested that you don’t need dust boots?… have you ever held a dust boot in your hand? Have you ever compared a high misalignment and a low misalignment rod end in your hand?

Have you looked at the dust boot and the low misalignment rod ends that I use and tried to put the dust boot on?

Here’s the point, because you dont REQUIRE a high misalignment rod end, you can use a boot. And if you R&Ded your products, you would find there are boots for high misalignment rods ends but clearly longevity isn’t in the budget. There is one company that did put it in the budget, and didn’t put their product on the market until recent after testing multiple versions for 2 years. Megan Racing, recently released a stainless rod end, much larger, better corrosion resistance, and they topped it off with a boot to seal the end. A tested, and tried product. And priced very well.
Now given the bars are manufactured from steel, to keep cost down, however the money is spent where it counts. For those who want an alternative to Bings http://www.meganracing.com/products/product_page.asp?catid=108
Check out MR gear a have a chat with Varun he’ll help you out

Do you know what the purpose of the Kevlar / Teflon liner is?

The answer to all these questions is a resounding NO!

Says who? Like I said it’s not rocket science, it’s common sense.

@BAS

what suspension type does this QA1 use?

Oh, no one knew who QA1 was… but now you do

Anyone who surfs summit racing knows who QA1 is, any stock car, offroader, drag car, whatever, knows who these guys are

@TM

I still think he stould try QA1… We can figure out a nice little suspension setup for you sasha… i like i like…

Are you not you glad that someone like me does the research so that you can benefit from my work?

That was about as self indulgent and self serving as I would expect out of you. Give yourself that pat on the back, but it was Malcolm running QA1 shock/spring setups that brought them to my attention as a cheap alternative to buying D2’s after Sasha kills them every 4 races. They have enough versatility to make something thats outside the box and with a budget like Sasha’s the cheaper stuff still gives him the ability to choose with being completely restricted to coilover shock mounted in place with no adjustment.

So, no it wasn’t you, it was it was someone else with more knowledge, insight, and experience. Not some guy who surfed onto summit one day

Do you know what the rod end that Titan used was?

Yep

Because I do know what the rod end is, and I did not try to sell him QA1 rod ends because QA1 does not make a rod end that will fit his arms. I can get much better pricing on Mc-Carr than he could and that is what I would have helped him with.

He got it through work, pretty sure he got it cheaper then you could, which is probably the other reason he turned your offer down. Not everyone needs you Bing, in fact, no one does.

Also, theo is still running those same RUCA’s in his car… why are you not celebrating those arms, seeing as how I would also be responsible for those ones too right?

What? I’m supposed to keep track of everyone running every part? Yeah let me just type up my list, and fax you a copy. Don’t be so stupid.

Oh wait… I forgot your advice… ignore some points, focus on others… perhaps you should read your own words bob.

I cant ignore what I don’t know dont be rediclous. I cant ignore his suspension when I dont know what he’s running

And why oh why do you continue to hold me responsible for parts I didn’t make?

If I am responsible for parts you say that I sold simply because I sold them then why are you not responsible for buying them and then selling them to Alex?

At least I told him what I had modified, the condition of the bearings, and some other information such as the antiseized threadhe might find pertinent. It was a singal private sale. I didn’t buy these straight from a manufacturer in bulk then resell for profit. I smashed my car and was parting it out to go towards the next project. It’s very much different.

Like when you handed them to me that night, I take them home, and the metal has cracked on them forcing me to weld them to prevent further dislocation of the metal. You never said anything about that. So I fixed it. You aren’t squeaky clean, you’re as dirty as the next guy, don’t play it off like a private sale to buy antoher project is the same as buying in mass from a manufacturer to sell on a forum.

Whats more is that when you sold those arms that you bought you made mention of my name, calling them Bing’s RUCA’s even though you know I didn’t make them. So you misrepresented a product using my name. If you don’t think you did let me assure you that you did in fact do that because I had people asking me if I made the arms… I said no I did not make those arms and then alex got rid of them and called me up and I delivered the real ones to him at work.

What was I going to call them? You were the one selling them and buying them from the manufacturer, you’re the one plugging them, you were the guy everyone went to when they had a problem because you were distributing them. What the hell would I call them? They all came from you, so therefore your associated with the links. This comes as a surprise to you? Welcome to reality

If those arms you owned and modified break, is that my fault or yours? I mean, if the sole basis for assigning responsibility is the act of exchanging cash for the item then you would be as guilty as I in that case?

That’s an excellent question, here’s the answer, they’re used links at that point so no one is at fault except the buyer. But I still told him every thing that was done to them and the problems I had with them.

If your skills at re-enforcing steel are as good as your skills at re-enforcing your point then i think you should track down who bought those arms and buy them back and destroy them… maybe you could do that by trying to argue with them and the arms will jsut combust out of frustration.
Lame.

How is it my fault that the product failed if I never even touched it? all I did was make sure I had the proper amount of packages, made sure the right stuff was in it and shipped it out… I may never have actually physically touched that arm… but its still my fault.

Sell the product, take no responsibility. You are just a poster child for good intentions

What relevance is the price of the parts?

Low quality material, costs less. Period.

My facts are generalized?

How about that specific example, of which I know first hand to be 100% true.

A senior management official, the same one who now owns the company that builds my arms, told me to my face what the outcome was…maybe he was generalizing as well eh?

Maybe the root cause of having to go to cheaper labour was because the unions made it impossible for Ford to function efficiently and within a reasonable margin so they had no choice butto go to a place where unions don’t exist. So in effect maybe the cheaper labour was a result for that fat mullet toting redneck who just wont work that extra 10 minutes a shift because he’s lazy and he knows he can’t be fired because he’s union. All he has to do is sit back and wait for the pension.

Other factors effect outcomes Bing, it’s not all cut and dry

I mean a plant shutting down because its product is now being outsourced to china is quite obviously not an example of a plant shutting down because its product was outsourced to china right? I assumed that for my own purpose right?
See above

Ok, this is the end of this post, so I am going to end it the same way you end your posts, with a rhetorical question that insinuates dishonesty on the part of the opposition without factual support…

Why do you keep skirting the issues?

The irony of you saying that is enough to make anyone vomit. I’m not skirting, I just answered, but apparently there are 2 more of these long ass posts I have to read through to I can pick all the trash you spew, but unfortuneatly I have things to do tonight. Besides I dont care if you chagne your mind, it’s everyone else I worry about, looking up to you like your everyones best friend. All you’re trying to do is make money, and while there isn’t anything wrong with that, dont take advantage of peoples ignorance

[TM1]

Tell you what,

When I have another chance to sit down and look at things, I’ll write up another reply. I’m not going to let you twist anything and everything like you useually do.

[bing]

@TM

Here’s the point, because you dont REQUIRE a high misalignment rod end, you can use a boot. And if you R&Ded your products, you would find there are boots for high misalignment rods ends

@TM

Here’s the point, because you dont REQUIRE a high misalignment rod end, you can use a boot. And if you R&Ded your products, you would find there are boots for high misalignment rods ends

Bob,

i dont use high-misalignment rod ends, and boots can pretty much only be used on high-misalignment rod ends anyways…

i use low misalignment rod ends with a self sealing liner because it eliminates the need for boots…

you just proved a few times over in that post that you DO NOT know the difference between a high and low mis-alignment rod end.

high-misalignment left, low mis-alignment right.

thanks for coming out though.

btw, i also explained that i used low misalignment in my post but you ignored that too.

---

@TM

Here’s the point, because you dont REQUIRE a high misalignment rod end, you can use a boot. And if you R&Ded your products, you would find there are boots for high misalignment rods ends but clearly longevity isn’t in the budget. There is one company that did put it in the budget, and didn’t put their product on the market until recent after testing multiple versions for 2 years. Megan Racing, recently released a stainless rod end, much larger, better corrosion resistance, and they topped it off with a boot to seal the end. A tested, and tried product. And priced very well.
Now given the bars are manufactured from steel, to keep cost down, however the money is spent where it counts. For those who want an alternative to Bings http://www.meganracing.com/products/product_page.asp?catid=108
Check out MR gear a have a chat with Varun he’ll help you out

yeah :roll:

look, i wouldnt bash megan racing or Varun… i love Varun and i sell Megan parts…

but dont put Megan and R&D in the same sentence please, in the context of this arguement it is flamboyant ignorance.

i dont care how many times they changed the stuff around, you cannot call a process R&D that yields a product that is not materially different from other market offerings, especially when it is released 17 years after the original product was launched.

if i came out with a Beta VCR that was cordless and had a DVD player built into the side of it that is hardly R&D.

and for you to claim that the rod ends are “much larger” is pure stupidity… there is not one single multi-link arm on the market today that is larger than what i use aside from some TC rods who use a larger rod end… megan is not one of them.

If you are championing Megan’s R&D department then perhaps you would like to show me a propriety product that Megan offers…

because i dont think they have one… and by that i mean you can buy a product literally identical to anything megan sells but under a different name.

its not just me either, every major US company i deal with is moving into these products despite years of reluctance… Megan is a driving force for sure, but that force has less than nothing to do with R&D.

[Bero]

My head hurts.

[spd-dmn]

more tea please, two sugars

[Hector]

there must be something good about the QA1 rod ends, we use them in our shop drag car , we have various race teams that buy race fuel from us and they all use them in thier cars, and some of these guys put them through harsher elements then u guys could ever do on the streets, i mean serious mud boggin and rock crawling all types of shit , but what do i know , i build rice …

[iQuAGoD]

Hector > *.dumbass_posting_in_this_thread

[bing]

i honeslty cannot beleive that anyone, particularly someone who has never used a high-end rod end, would trash these rod ends…

i mean, the BEST multi-link arms on the market in my opinion, with the exception of mine of course…lol… are by SPL… and they use QA1 rod ends… and they use a LOWER series, like 3 series lower, than the ones i use. the SPL arms use a rod end whose load rating is less than 50% what the ons i use have.

but some $2 rod end from china with a dust boot and no technical data to support it is WAY BETTER because Megan uses it on their arms… whoa i’m sold… and it would lower my cost like $40 per pair of arms too… maybe i need to ramp up my r&d a bit.

i have several of the rod ends, the exact part number, that SPL uses sitting here in a box and i wont use them anymore.

the first RUCA’s i sold had those rod ends in them and guys are still using them with no problems like 1.5 years later.

i used those lesser rod ends on a TC arm in my own car through the winter with no noise and i even got into a head on accident and snapped the back half of the arm… but the rod end survived.

i get yelled at by this kid for not posting stats a few months ago… so i come at him with numbers… then he yells at me for defending the gear with numbers… wtf?

wow team lexus uses a $60 rod end… who gives a shit… i could go to NHBB and buy a $150 rod end and use it on these arms and it would survive being dropped from a plane… but what good would that do for anyone?

i already use the best rod ends you can get on any multi-link suspension sold anywhere… and yet it still isnt good enough for bob.

shucks

[GT1]

@bing

wow team lexus uses a $60 rod end… who gives a shit… i could go to NHBB and buy a $150 rod end and use it on these arms and it would survive being dropped from a plane… but what good would that do for anyone?

shucks

i actually drop my car from a plane once a month to test aerodynamics… so thanks for not thinking of me asshole.

GT

[bing]

when you are ready greg, i will special order a set of NHBB rod ends, the ones that get used on Boeings and probably even space shuttles… the things are fukkin crazy expensive… but ur a pure baller so i know you can hack it.

btw… i wont warranty those rod ends either… you know… cause i dont make them. you would have to take up the warranty issues with New Hampshire Ball Bearing

[GT1]

@bing

when you are ready greg, i will special order a set of NHBB rod ends, the ones that get used on Boeings and probably even space shuttles… the things are fukkin crazy expensive… but ur a pure baller so i know you can hack it.

btw… i wont warranty those rod ends either… you know… cause i dont make them. you would have to take up the warranty issues with New Hampshire Ball Bearing

thas right… strait ballin out of control. ya hurd?

and ill take those assholes to court if i have to.

fucking rod ends… didnt take 46,000 feet…

clearly i kid about this whole situation… because its gone on for like… 8 months.

im good friends with bob… and good friends with bing…

and for that… both of you are clowns.

and for the clownage… i slap you in the face.

fin.

GT

[bing]

its always the same story with bob… he’s awesome in person, but sucks on-line.

we were all buddy buddy last year at CSCS, he gave me a ride on a bike and i had my nuts on his back…haha

but then he just cusses and cusses and cusses on here about nothing… jeez.

[iQuAGoD]

If I was going to buy multi-link I would buy it from Bing because his rod
ends have the best value. You get good bang for the buck, and his parts
are at least as good as anything on the market.

I bet if we kept all this bickering down we wouldnt go over our bandwidth
limit :lol:

[TM1]

Forget it,

I don’t have the time to bicker with school here…

You sell and do whatever it is you need to do…

And talk to Scotty about getting his short shifter warrentied…

[bing]

maybe scotty should put it in properly.

and maybe he should do me the courtesy of not blaming me for his shifter in public when he didnt buy it from me, bought it second hand, installed it wrong, didnt inspect it before complaing and doing all this after i do him the favour of going out of my way in the US, going to Autozone, picking up some stuff for him and his buddy, clearing it through customs for him and then delivering it to his friend the next day, all at no charge.

seems like the a mark-ass thing to do if you ask me… all things considered.

–

i dont think you really need to argue anymore about this stuff anyways.