About arguing, you’re probably right…
Seems people are slowly learning that cheap knockoff parts are a waste of money, rather then a savings of money.
some items are and some items are not, i’ll give you that much.
yes i have heard that other people have had the same issue with the catbacks and i have tried to deal with them accordingly. it is impossible to do this however when people dont tell me about it or when they decline my efforts.
and there is a right price for everything, hence why Max’s busted exhuast is already sold.
there have been a variety of items that i’ve brought up that turned out to be unusable, many of which were refunded (greddy S type BOV’s and the previous generation of Hard Tie Rods)
however, in these cases the parts were not used, and certainly not used for a whole year. because of this, refunds were issued to many people.
there are also a variety of items whos unbranded counter-parts are equal to the branded version in every way and far superior with regards to price.
unagruable examples would be subframe collars, oil catch cans and things like these.
slightly more debateable items are both intake and exhuast manifolds as well as Intercoolers. if installed properly there is no reason why they could not match the performance of the branded versions.
items that should never be used are the unbranded turbochargers, unbranded multi-link arms etc.
however, it would be impossible to determine what parts are useable and what parts are not until people start using them.
exhausts are a difficult one, many many people are using Top Speed and SSAC exhuasts (i sell Top Speed products) with no issues after several years… including people who bought these exact catbacks from me.
when a few people have an issue it is natural to assume that the fault is that of the user, be it improper install or excessive use… but then again, sometimes it is the manufacturers fault.
Thats because brands like Top Speed, and SSAC have practically zero quality control checks. Why? Because they dont need to have them by law, and most companies wont spend the money to do it.
Plus the manufacturing process is loose so you constantly have inconsistencies in your product. Some might be ok, some might be paperweights. It’s Russian Roulette with those parts.
Doesn’t mean that Max shouldn’t have gotten his cash refund after it fell apart after 1000km in the summer. From what looked like cracked welds, not corroded welds.
I’ll agree certain parts require more engineering and knowledge. The problem is not everyone knows the difference between a brand name and a knockoff part that makes it the same or better.
People don’t know which parts are acceptable to buy knockoffs for. They cant make that distinction because they wont know any better.
The installation of an intercooler into a car isn’t going to be the same for internal pressure loss as a well made intercooler or manifold set up the same way.
People shouldn’t buy unbranded stuff if they don’t have the knowledge base to understand what they’re looking at. Then again if they cant afford one, they’ll go for the other.
many unbranded aftermarket intercoolers have been pressure tested to at least 55psi, i have read about many of these tests on various forums. however in those same tests there were far more expensive intercoolers that held pressure upwards of 80psi or higher.
for almost all applications the 55psi will suffice. in fact, all over freshalloy you will find shops through the US who are running these unbranded or rebranded chinese intercoolers on 500whp applications.
information like that is important, but it requires trial.
its easy to make assumptions about chinese manufacturing processes but its impossible to be 100% accurate because we just dont have all the information required to make these claims.
it is also impossible to definitively state that the intercoolers or manifolds and even teh exhuasts are not coming from the same factories that are producing for brand name manufacturers…
after the article came out in modified mag where i made mention of this there were a variety of people from various parts of the world who e-mailed me and told me that they had in fact been in these factories and seen that the real deal branded products were being rolled off the same lines as the unbranded ones… it does make sense, but is it true?
i dont know 100% for sure and neither could you.
its also impossible to say whether or not the branded products have the same kind of testing and QA procedures because that information is also not available. of course people from Greddy or HKs will tell you that they do have those procedures in place but until you see the actual forms that have been filled out by line worker and signed off by supervisors it is all just heresay.
also, most of these companies do not boast ISO 9001 or other quality manufacturing flags. the reason may not be because they havent applied or dont meet the requirements, more often than not the reason they dont boast these certifications is because they dont actually manufacture anything.
for example, Megan Racing.
Because they do not actual have a manufcaturing facility they cannot provide you with quality control procedures because it is something that is teh jurisdiction of the private label manufacturer.
and yes i do know alot about this process because i am typing this post from the office of a HACCP certified private lable food processing firm. food processing is even more strict that ISO certifications because HACCP is directly concerned with the food we eat.
we produce products for Sobey’s, A&P etc. etc. and aside from the annual audits they conduct to make sure we are holding up to our part of the bargain there is really very little involvement on their part with regards to quality after the standards have been set.
ultimately if there is a failure, ie. case of foodborne disease, the onus rests on the manufacturer. We are the ones that lot code and track all the items processed and if there is such an issue it is our responsibily to track and recall all the flawed items.
if this sounds familiar it is because this format is where i get my point of view frm with regards to the products i am selling, car parts specifically.
i will gladly handle the warranty for all items that i produce or rather the items for which i am repsonibsle for the design adn manaufacture of, even though i dont make them with my own hands.
however, i disagree that in this particular case max deserved a cash refund.
yes i beleive that he didnt drive the car very much, but the only way i could agree that he deserved a cash refund is if this was a common practice in the industry for these components.
i have never heard of any exhuast manufacture issuig a cash refund to any customer for a product flaw that fell outside teh warranty period, 1 year in this case, and i dont think that you could produce that type of information for me either.
which begs teh question, upon what grounds does this scenerio warrant a cash refund?
in a court of law there would have to be some sort of precedent set, there clearly is not.
does max deserve some sort of service? yes he certianly does in my opinion and i offered him what i felt was fair and what i beleive to be above and beyond whay many companies would offer.
that said, mileage is not relevant because the warranty is (or would have been had we discussed fully) expressed as a time frame, not a measure of useage.
moreover, simply the nature of the failure could be construed as install or usage related. the exhuast could simply have been hit or made contact with something or the hangers may have otherwise been exposed to unintended weight.
i am not suggesting that either of these were the case, only that becasue these scenerios are possible it is not common place to find the type of warranty you are suggesting.
Food facilities work differently when it’s shipped to a consumer.
Tate and Lyle ships sugar from their refinery to consumers like Sobeys and A&P. Their quality checks are done in the refinery and samples are observed by their staff od lab technicians, and then samples are sent to the consumers before they even get their shipments.
Likewise any impurities in whatever the consumer recieves costs Tate and Lyle an incredible amount of money in compensation for a contaminated load.
What I’m saying, is that in general, nothing aftermarket is quality tested to the degree OEM manufacturers are required to do.
Which is why those companies need to advertised their testing methods and quality checks in order to gain the trust of someone looking to improve their cars output without decreasing it’s reliability. Tomei is an excellent example of a company that markets their testing and quality checks.
The point is, that non of these companies are required to. Therefore you have two types of companies. One company selling their products at higher prices but marketing it as higher quality, whether it actually is or not. The other doesn’t market anything except super low price.
Megan as a central distributor with the purchasing power they have, have an incredible amount of pull on those outsourced manufacturers to clean up their quality checks and testing. Because ultimately it’s Megans rep on the line and their legal team battling any such faulty product. Not the manufacturers.
Tate and Lyle is at the mercy of the consumer even though they are selling the product to that company, and even though they practically have a monopoly except for Lantic on sugar in NA.
The same applies to Megan racing. They will apply pressure simply because of their purchasing power, to the manufacturer or else they’ll simply look elsewhere. And thats a huge hit to that manufacturer.
It’s easy to compare everything to everything else, but in reality, until someone sees the actual plant and manufacturing process, aftermarket parts are pot luck in terms of quality regardless of brand.
as per rod ends are concerned…bob do you know which rod ends CAT/John Dear use from the factory? Or hitachi, JCB or any of the heavy duty applications…do they use dust boots?
and to clarify, what IS your schooling bob?
I find this funny, this argument is about pete…but do you see pete posting?
No you dont, he’s laughing at you. Any real engineer has a name for all you engineering students who think they know everything already.
So let the REAL engineers continue to do the engineering and the Student PRETENDGINEERS do the pretending, because bob, thats all you really are good at; pretending to know a god damn thing, thats all you’ve ever been good at.
If you’d like to solve the issue, Bring me 1 of ANY rod arms, and 1 of bings. I’ll have them strength tested at U of T.
Put up or Shut up.
Actually I dont know what CAT or John Deer uses… I dont work on farm equipment…
But where I worked in the previous summer, after a certain amount of hours in operation service was done on the dozer or front end loader. And these amount of hours are, by comparison to driving, minute.
Not only that but most large farm vehicles like combines aren’t exactly drivin in the winter. Tractors? Yeah possibly, but when you’re driving a huge greasable bearing, it helps.
Mechanical Engineering and Management is my current program.
Pete didn’t post that much to begin with.
Pretendgineers, good one, especially coming from a guy who put a gaping hole in his new rad because he didn’t clearnence the rad fan…
I’m pretty sure about 4 posts up I said I wasn’t going to argue or that I didn’t have the time to anymore. And in my last post, I’m sure alot of what I was saying was a different take on what Bing already said. There are differences looking at it from his point of view and mine.
Then you come in here raging like an alcoholic, and fire shit up again.
You missed the boat dude, it was back a while.
And one more thing, pretty sure we werent arguing strength but more so corrosion resistance given that many people drive on these link all year round.
Regardless, anyone who has the work ethic to take on engineering has alot of respect in my book, just like doctors, or lawyers. Those people who can apply that knowledge are even more that impressive because those are the people that design, and engineer the part, the machinery that is used to produce that part, and ultimately the vehicle by which you recieve the part from.
Those pretengineers you’re laughing at will be the guys producing the parts that keep you in business.
I don’t think of myself as one, but hey, it’s coming from you so it doesn’t hold that much weight anyways.
oh bobby.
typical response from you. You know so much dont you, nobody can question the great and all knowing bobby.
Before you jump to assumptions; you were always so good at that…perhaps ask some questions first, the rad had plenty of clearence…Being as you’re on this new “engineering” path bobby, what forces are acting upon a mechanical fan as rpm increase?
Now what happens after 18 years of use to plastic? Apply a larger load then the fan was meant to take and it distorts. Rpm+distortion = bang. New fan blade from nissan and guess what? it’s fine. Wow you’re so insightful
Even a hick like yourself should know that.
As long as we’re on the subjects of fuck ups…oh wait i dont need to say anything, i AM talking to you.
Alright that’s enough, gentlemen.