No that’s wrong, the economy did it 
All I said cars are easier to steal here in general and the statistics point to that…fack it could be instability in Former Soviet Union as the cause.
But you of course have a better reason for the massive 16% decrease in car thefts in one year in the UK.
Waiting…
Please respond to the fact it’s the SAME companies selling cars in NA as in Europe, I don’t care if they’re easier to steal here or not, I asking for how you came to the conclusion that they do this on purpose so they can sell more cars.
So you have no real reason for the substantial decreases in the UK since 1992 then.
Alright last clarification post cause you said please.
There are many different makes and models in the UK…correct? So throw out the idea the same model cars are made different for that market - I never said that. What I am claiming is that not much has been done to combat auto theft in NA. Economy is red hot why didn’t we fall 16% then?
When a car is stolen another has to be bought. Insurance premiums will rise (across the board). The consumer loses a car, becomes high risk and has to pay more as does everyone with the same high-risk auto. So everyone is happy, except the consumer who is required by law to pay for insurance, higher insurnace.
Insurance companies are making billions of dollars with record profits and automakers need to sell cars. When a car is stolen, both are accomplished so really why change anything, why try harder?
Read the book: The 500 Year Delta, more specifically the section on Tommy Hilfiger who was thought to position his clothing in such way that it would be stolen by inner city kids. Then the suburban kids who actually pay for the merchandise will buy it because it is worn by the kids they try and emulate.
Or read Freakonmics ties the drop in crime in the US to one pregnant woman!
Maybe true, maybe just rants but you’d be a nOOb to think their aren’t clever economists and marketeers out there pulling one over on the public.
Ttt
ed i hate the way you are debating.
you dont have any information to form a proper counter-point so you make it personal and attack credentials of someone who actually has them.
you sound like mattback or a couple ontario people whose names i wont mention
i mean seriously, if you dont have the capacity to actually argue, then just dont argue. i can appreciate that you have the desire to disagree for any one of a variety of reasons, but it looks stupid.
I would inject that the british isles… keyword: isles… is more secure for theft than say the mainland or eastern europe…
kinda like how if you steal a car in eastern europe you can drive an hour and be “lost” in some far off shithole in the *-stan countries and no one will do shit about it, and with labour being so cheap they can chop it or re-vin/rebuild it and resell it to western europe, or just as likely send it to africa/mideast to some druglord or oil sheik
and don’t think factory alarms, or even dense urban sprawl can protect it… I’ve heard from relatives of having cars stolen at 5am off of tiny narrow side streets overlooked by tons of apartments or houses, and alarms never going off, new cars mind you
from england the closest you can do to “leave” is the chunnel, and they put your car on a train for several hours once you get to the docks… figure half a day to even start to get lost in france…
Yo guys, nobody argue with him.
Hes been to England more than once, drives a skyline, edits a magazine, and he works in the auto industry.
We should make him the captian of son since hes like our god.
Wheres the thumbs down on emoticon on SON?
How can you even compair the clothing industry to the automotive industry?
Do you understand how many variables there are to statistics?
Are you statistics from an Un-Biased source?
Where did you get your statistical information?
So are you saying that if I take the ignition cylinder and door lock cylinder out of a Honda Civic in the UK and compair it to the one in Canada it will be noticably modified to make it easier to steal?
Do you acutually think that a company as large as GM (Who sells cars in the UK) who had net profits of $529 million dollars in 2006 is going to potentially risk going bankrupt when the public finds out that they alter their cars to make them easier to steal in North America.
For what? So they can potentially get only a couple of million more in net sales?
This is not some little fly by night operation you are talking about here, you are talking about some of the largest companies in the world, who are closly watched.
And the same goes for any other car manufacturer.
You need to also understand that there are 298 million people in the United States and that there is only 60 million people in England.
It is much easier for your precentages variatons in England to alter when there are far less cars on the road in the UK vs the United States.
The population of the United States is nearly 5x larger than England.
If you steal 1 car in a population of 100 then 1% of the cars have been stolen. (England)
If you steal 1 car in a population of 500 (5x bigger than the origional) 0.2% of the cars have been stolen. (United States)
It works exacally the other way too.
Your entire arguement is weak, and full of senseless bragging.
from an international branding, marketing, publicity, labour, manufacturing and cultural importance perpective the textile industry is incredibly similar and in many case more heavily regulated than the automotive industry. Many nations have thier prime exports very closely tied to textiles (raw materials [cotton] and labour) as others do to the automotive industry (raw materials [steel] and labour)
the social importance of each industry gives rise to regulation and the degrees of it.
Dave said this:
companies have done even more dispicable things than that…
for example, Bayer Corp intentionally distributed blood in third world countries known to be infected with HIV.
they did not go bankrupt and that is a far wrse atrocity than the supposed one in this case though i am not supporting dave’s arguement, i am simply opposing your point that it would mean bankruptcy.
Automotive manufacturers are not just automotive manufacturers, their influence is far reaching and in fact they can get away with incredible things that you would think they shouldnt be allowed to get away with.
i have several documentaries about this type of thing that i could show you in fact.
your math is correct, but percentages are by defination relative measures. the decreases mentioned would be relative to previous year stats in the same geographical region, not across international bounderies and over differing populations.
what you are saying is that the absolute number of 1% of cars in the UK is equal to the absolute of .2% of US cars.
that doesnt have any relevance to relative changes per year in automotive theft statistics.
–
i dont necessarily agree with Dave at all here… but i hate the way that some people’s arguements might lead lurkers to think they have a valid point.
since no one beleives me when i thrash against certain people who oppose my informed opinions regarding certain issues perhaps the point will be made when i dont have anything to do with the subject matter
Bing you took everything I said and related it to somthing other than what skyline guy was realting it to.
You can not compair what he was talking about in an auto vs clothing industry.
People do not steal BMW’s and then drive around in them and go yo ima baller look at me im driving a bimmer.
In a stolen car.
Clothing is another issue compleatly.
This is what Tommy wanted done to promote his line.
He also said,
All North American cars are easy to steal, they are manufactured that way.
So, if I take the ignition cylinder and door lock cylinder out of a Honda Civic in the UK and comapir it to the one in Canada it will be noticably modified to make it easier to steal according to him.
Secondly, im sure companies might have done that, but guess what they were caught and now the video is on YouTube.
If this had been going on since the 1990s like this guy said, it would be on YouTube too.
Espechially somthing as simple as an auto theft system which does not take a scientist to figure out, literly.
What are you going to do stop buying asprin? Bayer still collects royalities from other companies like Equate who sell unbranded versions of their drug.
A consumer can easily switch from a “unsafe for theft” GM car to a Ford equivilant very easily.
i was attacking the method of arguement, not your points specifically.
did he say the door lock cylinders were different?
No, but he said cars are manufactured that way, he didnt list the modle, which ones, why or how.
So on a car like a Honda Civic, where the only theft deterant is a lock on the door, and a ignition lock, that is the only thing that could of been manufactured to be easier to steal.
So the difference should be obvious.
Nothing he’s posted has supported his claim that manufacturers intentially make cars easier to steal in NA so they can sell more cars. Wow he posted some stats to try and confuse you and make it seem like it supports his arguement. And then said that he’s been to England, so he must be an expert on it. I have British citizenship, a British passport and my brother currently lives in London England, how can I be wrong?!?! :rolleyes:
Also he dodges the fact that it’s the same manufacturers here as in Britain, so it doesn’t matter if the models they sell are different, they’re the ones who want to make money. Why make them easy to steal here, but not in Europe?
Example of how his stat of decressed car theft in 2004 are meaningless for his arguement
Vehicle theft in the USA
“TOP TEN MOST FREQUENTLY STOLEN PASSENGER VEHICLES, 2004
Rank …Year, …Make, .Model
.1 …1995 …Honda Civic
.2… 1989 …Toyota Camry
.3 …1991 …Honda Accord
.4 …1994 …Dodge Caravan
.5 …1994 …Chevrolet Full Size C/K 1500 Pickup
.6 …1997 …Ford F150 Series
.7 …2003 …Dodge Ram Pickup
.8 …1990 …Acura Integra
.9 …1988 …Toyota Pickup
10 …1991… Nissan Sentra
Source: National Insurance Crime Bureau.”
All cars but one are from before 1998, and I’m pretty sure the '03 dodge ram isn’t a big seller in Britain. Are the exact same manufacteres recalling old cars in Britain to install security systems??
“cars aged between 11-15 year account for 41% of all cars stolen”
The Car Theft Index 2003 for England, Scotland and Wales
Arguing over the internet about this stuff becomes so redundant and boring, you wont convince anyone, people pick and chose what to respond to. You save a lot of time simply pointing out how wrong you think they are and commenting on the ugly stickers they have on their skyline, then spending ages getting nowhere by arguing over the internet.
+1
Haha “senseless bragging” thats a great one. I was actually alluding to the fact that I’ve been around and not just on the internet. Where did I mention Skyline? Why is that relevant or I guess that is perceived bragging by you to conjure up something from my sig LOL. Stop making it personal bro, it looks ridiculus you’re trying to defend the industries who are notorious for deceiving the public because they are very rich and very powerful - happens regularly.
Now you bring up another arguement that is a huge target for debate - unsuccessfully. You are claiming car companies would never cover anything up as they are under constant public scrutiny…holy fack am I watching the comedy channel’ cause this is hilarious.
You need to read more. I suggest Googling a couple interesting reads (I’d provide a link but no time) the ex-President of Mitsubishi Fuso in Japan who killed himself after years of coverups on unsafe vehicles. Then try Googling the cases of where in the 1970s, GM had had safety isues in trucks and cars during collisions and internal correspedence that showed the math on how much cash they allotted to to pay for a death settlement or how much for injury, versus an expensive recall. A price on lives.
Once again I did not claim the same model cars were manufactured differently ever…so why the Civic example? I am claiming there is not much done to combat theft here.
Again, I DID NO COMPARE THE AUTO industry to the clothing industry. So re-read that again. Merely pointing out this world isn’t all black and white as that author pointed out. I came up with a theory, then analyzed the facts, precidents and statistics to support it. It may not be right, don’t care if you believe it and I’m ready for any logical debate.
You seem to have some analytical skills so try this: Statistics show that in the UK had tremendous problems with auto theft in the 80s, then between 92-97 it fell a staggering 28%, it dropped a dramatic 16% last year alone. While the US with 1.2million stolen cars has narrowly fluctuated but only down 1% since 1995.
Why?
Yeah these sell tonnes of these in the US too
In order, the cars reported stolen most often in 2005 were:
(most of them are old skool new stuff is too hard to steal)
Vauxhall Belmont
Vauxhall Astra Mk2
Ford Escort Mk3
Austin/Morris Metro
Vauxhall Nova
Ford Orion
Rover Metro
Austin/Morris Maestro
Austin/Morris Montego
Ford Fiesta Mks1, 2 and 3
Why you trolls keep hammering on the point that I am claiming Civic lock cylenders are different and UK Bimmers are made like vaults is beyond me?!
Since you have provided no counter, you wanna take stab at a hypothesis of the substantial drop in the UK?
This is 2007 not 1970.
Relevant information please.
You said cars are manufactured that way.
Cars its self covers all makes and modles, so why not the civic?
^^^
Yeah you are right it isn’t the 70s, so try investigating the Mitsubishi Fuso cover up of millions of vehicles that was very recent, there are more, Google around.
Yes, cars IN GENERAL are harder to steal in th UK due to their initiative to combat theft beginning in the early 1990s and it is working. No, basically same amount of theft in the US for 12 years despite a searing hot economy.
Any hypothesis for the decline in the UK then?
or should we change the subject to why almost all gas stations are charging 99.9 maxiumum barrier…Hmmmm?!
cars in japan are harder to steal than cars in england
jealous?
The brits got fed up with all the thefts so the cops got their shit together and started arresting more thieves. Since in total there is a lot less thefts in england it was easier to stop a larger percentage of them.
this is a hypothesis i have no data to back this up, just an idea.
You may be on to something, I know the CCTV cameras they installed all over England really helped counteract crime too. Didn’t do much for privacy invasion but… hey neither does the Patriot Act.