WOW that is SUPER awesome DUDE. How LONG do you think that MOTOR will last?!
Anyway, for real, pretty damn impressive.
[quote=āPass McGrass,post:61,topic:24902"ā]
WOW that is SUPER awesome DUDE. How LONG do you think that MOTOR will last?!
Anyway, for real, pretty damn impressive.
[/quote]
LOL!
With the right oil and no funny stuff, I would give that bottom end the same lifespan as stock.
The headsā¦ specifically the exhaust valvesā¦ are on borrowed time.
[quote=āILCisDEAD,post:58,topic:24902"ā]
Yep read again, how about some info on what you did? Iām actually quite curious. Its just hard to be impressed when you say
" MONTHS OF WORK, a 2 year project"
great thats time you spent into it. how about a little bit on the theory
[/quote]
I am not really trying to impress you, just post up proof to the few who said I couldnt do itā¦ that I not only could, but did.
As far as changes, I would prefer to keep my mouth shut, and let you wait for the final product. If you are talking about overall, throughout the car, I can show you some examples. But as far as listing what I changed in the rotating assembly, no dice dude. I can show you a picture, sure, but you wont get much theory from thatā¦haha.
The above quotes are kind of misleading, as I didnt spend two years on the part of the project being illustrated by this post (ie: rotating assembly) I have been working on the ENTIRE car for about 16 months now, maybe 2 months dedicated to the rotating assembly as a whole through its conceptual stage, solid modeling, production version 1, and final version 2.
But anywaysā¦ Iām out. Iāll be back in a few hours, have to go take some new toys out for machiningā¦
[quote=āFinal GTS,post:63,topic:24902"ā]
I am not really trying to impress you, just post up proof to the few who said I couldnt do itā¦ that I not only could, but did.
[/quote]
Well Technically, you havenāt showed the proof 
lol
as for the numbers i quoted, just arbitrary numbers i saw, donāt think into them.
and how long can one expect to wait for numbers, and theory, and a description of what you did, to achieve this
[quote=āFinal GTS,post:20,topic:24902"ā]
I put a few ātricksā into the bottom end of that car
[/quote]
Care to elaborate? 100hp more than anyone else with the same setup by reducing rotating mass or friction losses is quite a bit. Thats the part of the thread that would interest me, since he left so much else stock in the top end.
[quote=āBaD AZz Z/28,post:65,topic:24902"ā]
Care to elaborate? 100hp more than anyone else with the same setup by reducing rotating mass or friction losses is quite a bit. Thats the part of the thread that would interest me, since he left so much else stock in the top end.
[/quote]
inflated dyno? 
[quote=āBaD AZz Z/28,post:65,topic:24902"ā]
Care to elaborate? 100hp more than anyone else with the same setup by reducing rotating mass or friction losses is quite a bit. Thats the part of the thread that would interest me, since he left so much else stock in the top end.
[/quote]
this is what i was looking for, he said āwait for the finished productā
he is obviously afraid someone is going to steal his ideas, and adapt them in their own thing. In a niche market, which i donāt see many others being in
[quote=āFinal GTS,post:60,topic:24902"ā]
Mike- Dont get me wrong, I wasnt coming after you or anything if thats what you thought. I tune, but this car is actually FAAAR away from here. I build Vipers from the ground up, including both Drivetrain and EMS/other electrical systems.
Its just that in a Viper, its easier said than done. Sure, you can EASILY hook up an AEM with the right harness, but swapping back to stock to pass inspection is NOT possible on a setup like this, without running both an AEM and leaving the piggyback in the harness for the swapback, and needing doubles of the wiring for both systems and what they control. I would still require the PWM outputs of the AEM just to make the car RUN (PWM controlled fuel pumps) not to mention the 02 sims, missfire codes, and fuel trims, injector swaps (which would be incorrect anyway due to diff pressures, P&H vs Sat., and pump design)ā¦ Quite literally, it would be a MESS to try and swap back, just to make it pass- thats why I am trying to avoid the swap back by making the OEM system work around the new designs.
[/quote]
I know exactly what youāre saying and I know itās time consuming, but Iāve put a standalone in a bus car before. The Viper is the same deal as a newer Volkswagen for instance. The ECU is tied into everything in the gauge cluster etc. You have to make your own jumper harness using ECU style plugs so you can quickly swap between the two. I had to do some searching to find the ECU plugs to make it. Youāll have the stock ECU harness and your jumper harnesses. The jumper harnesses will interrupt some wires and tap others. Then youāll make the harnesses with sets of plugsā¦one set for the stock ECU, one for piggyback, one for EMS. It is a bit of work to make and youāll need to map it out on paper to keep things straight, but when itās done if you do it right you can put everything back to stock by swapping a few plugs on your jumper setup. I can send you a picture of one if that would help make more sense.
[quote=āILCisDEAD,post:64,topic:24902"ā]
Well Technically, you havenāt showed the proof lol
as for the numbers i quoted, just arbitrary numbers i saw, donāt think into them.
and how long can one expect to wait for numbers, and theory, and a description of what you did, to achieve this
[/quote]
Oh geeze, lolā¦
Well, as a builder to a customer, one can expect to wait until its actually finished to get the final numbers, and one cant expect to ever be told exactly what was done or the theory behind what was done.
The car this post was about was a side-project based largely on the ābig projectā. There are NO numbers out for the ābigā project yetā¦ it is 100x more involved, and includes the whole car.
[quote=āILCisDEAD,post:67,topic:24902"ā]
this is what i was looking for, he said āwait for the finished productā
he is obviously afraid someone is going to steal his ideas, and adapt them in their own thing. In a niche market, which i donāt see many others being in
[/quote]
Right on.
[quote=āBaD AZz Z/28,post:65,topic:24902"ā]
Care to elaborate? 100hp more than anyone else with the same setup by reducing rotating mass or friction losses is quite a bit. Thats the part of the thread that would interest me, since he left so much else stock in the top end.
[/quote]
See above posts.
Mass and friction have VERY little to do with any of the gains. If anything, the reduced friction may have countered the losses from increased massā¦but thats about it.
[quote=āInn-Tune,post:68,topic:24902"ā]
I know exactly what youāre saying and I know itās time consuming, but Iāve put a standalone in a bus car before. The Viper is the same deal as a newer Volkswagen for instance. The ECU is tied into everything in the gauge cluster etc. You have to make your own jumper harness using ECU style plugs so you can quickly swap between the two. I had to do some searching to find the ECU plugs to make it. Youāll have the stock ECU harness and your jumper harnesses. The jumper harnesses will interrupt some wires and tap others. Then youāll make the harnesses with sets of plugsā¦one set for the stock ECU, one for piggyback, one for EMS. It is a bit of work to make and youāll need to map it out on paper to keep things straight, but when itās done if you do it right you can put everything back to stock by swapping a few plugs on your jumper setup. I can send you a picture of one if that would help make more sense.
[/quote]
Hey Mike,
I know exactly what your talking about, but there are many reasons I prefer to not go that route. However, If I am forced into it, I WILL do it if I have to. I have the entire harness mapped already, my piggyback is quite a bit more integrated than any piggyback you have ever seenā¦LOL.
I will add more to this later when I get backā¦
<ADD>
The main reason I will run into problems is that the OEM PCM, without being altered by HPT, can in no way pass inspection, even it it does run the car. I have missfire codes from the cam, incorrect cold-start, fuel maps, you name it. The number of cycles it takes to get the systems to āreadyā would never happen in the real world, iāll pop a code well before then.
The Piggyback only allows me to make the car driveable, it wont get rid of the codes. I need to change the OEM PCM first before I can get the system to act the way I want, the piggyback is being SEVERELY overtaxed at this point. A quick fix would certainly be to jump on the AEM bandwagon, but my entire point of the EMS setup is to make it truly OBD-2 compatible setup. Unfortunately, no matter how much money you throw at the AEM system, it will never be OBD-2.
My main point is that I cant make this thing pass inspection without changing the OEM PCM settings, regardless of the route I takeā¦ and if I am already there, why bother with going the AEM route? What I have now will be capable of the same thing, and be more integrated in doing so.
I backed myself into this corner due to the overall system design and some sacrafices I wasnt willing to make, but when its all done, it will be pushing the boundaries of all systems involved to a new level.
roger. good luck
[quote=āFinal GTS,post:49,topic:24902"ā]
The name of the game is MAKING MONEY. Kinda hard to make money if I crash it and have nothing to showā¦ is it not?
[/quote]
If you can drive, and the car is fast that is all the advertisement you need to make money. Everyone will want what you got on your car right??
[quote=āFinal GTS,post:55,topic:24902"ā]
I dont have the most current DS, just the preliminary one. As funny as it sounds, the tuner ran out of inkā¦you can actually see it on the scan.
[/quote]
tuner out of ink:lolham: I see a engine that stop reving.
some motors dont need to rev to 8500 rpm to make 200 ftlbs of torque 
[quote=āFinal GTS,post:71,topic:24902"ā]
See above posts.
Mass and friction have VERY little to do with any of the gains. If anything, the reduced friction may have countered the losses from increased massā¦but thats about it.
[/quote]
Well if the cam and heads are stock with the same boost level as other setups, with a rotating assembly that got heavier and little was done in terms of reduced frictionā¦then I cant say I see an area in the bottom end to gain 100hp over anyone else that has tried the same thing. The overall # looks fine, Im just trying to understand the difference between other setups and this.
[quote=ā87FOXGT,post:76,topic:24902"ā]
some motors dont need to rev to 8500 rpm to make 200 ftlbs of torque 
[/quote]
lol
[quote=ākingsario,post:74,topic:24902"ā]
If you can drive, and the car is fast that is all the advertisement you need to make money. Everyone will want what you got on your car right??
[/quote]
Yes, but you dont exactly take chances with the ONLY car that is completed! Thats like figuring out the secret of the universe, then going skydiving with a prototype parachute w/no backupā¦ before you tell anybody else what the secret was.
You also have to remember- the people I would be racing are NOT my customers. Short of filming street racing (STUPID), or hacking the shit out of my interior so I could even take it to a track to film it, I wont be proving anything to anyone that I can really benefit from proving anything to in the first place.
[quote=ākingsario,post:75,topic:24902"ā]
tuner out of ink:lolham: I see a engine that stop reving.
[/quote]
Uhā¦ hardly.