YOU FUCKING MORONS MAKE ME ASHAMED TO OWN AN F-BODY OVER AND OVER AGAIN. EVERY TIME DAN MAKES A POST/THREAD YOU JUST TRY TO GIVE HIM SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. THEN AFTER HE EXPLAINS IT AND YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE YOU GO RIGHT TO THE LETS RACE. HE ISNT BUILDING A UCKING 1/4 MILE CAR GET OVER IT IF HE WANTED TO IM SURE HE WOULD BUT HE DOSENT. I DONT THINK EITHER OF YOU FUCKNUTS EVEN RUNS QUICKER ETS THEN I DO OOOOOOOOO LETS GO TO THE TRACK MY DICK IS HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. FUCK THE GUY IS SMART AND KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING GET OVER IT.
BADAZZ- Yes, Because the guys that invented the atomic bomb posted the design info in the newspaper the next day after testing.
TurboLS1- LOL, the OEM compression is 9.6:1
Everyone Guess Again.
ill sell you a low 10 second f-body track proven for 17k lol throw and extra 100 shot run 9s and then never even bring the viper out make them beat the garbage beater first
[quote=“brendansi,post:98,topic:24902"”]
If I built a 900HP car (Viper or not), I would absolutely make a thread. And if it was anyone but Danno this wouldn’t be 4 pgs of WTF…
[/quote]
Seriously, guy is building a car that won’t break no matter what. And takes nothing but shit.
It’s so rare to see someone do everything 110% when doing a build. Never did understand the hate. Either way it’s a pretty cool build, and quite rare to see something a bit more on the “exotic” side so to speak.
hmmm now thats everyones an expert engine builder on here…because they put together a few small blocks :lol:
How many motors has everyone blown up in the past few years? Not putting down anywhere near this much HP?
[quote=“Nikuk,post:93,topic:24902"”]
Not that I’m trying to guess Dan’s work here, it’s his business in more ways then usual.
That being said, I’m surprised that none of the guessers here have thought about rod ratio, wpin location, rod angles, etc… slackers.
Regardless of all of that, Good Work Final GTS. :tup: :tup:
[/quote]
He showed us a dyno graph that stops around 6200 so it’s not an issue of changing the rod ratio etc. and spinning higher, but you’re right that it could be a lot of things. I don’t even remember anyone guessing boring/stroking it. LOL I was just just giving people a couple ideas, not all of them.
Everyone’s hung up on that 100 horse number. He said nearly 100 horse, plus as pointed out differences in dyno, plus I’m sure the tuning was a bit different, no two setups are exactly the same, blah blah blah.
So he claimed 950whp, 100whp greater than a similar build with the same top end. Lets say that 70 horse come from whatever his increase in bottom end efficiencies are. 70/850 = 8.2%
Is an 8.2% power increase just from bottom end work outlandish? Not sarcasm, I’m asking. I really don’t know.
Anyhow, Dan this is a good tactic. 
Make some reasonable but impressive claims, dos the methodology, let the skepticism flow, and throw in a dash of hateraid. Good way to build hype for your project and business. :tup:
[quote=“BikerFry,post:107,topic:24902"”]
Is an 8.2% power increase just from bottom end work outlandish? Not sarcasm, I’m asking. I really don’t know.
[/quote]
depending on the motor… no, it’s not too outlandish.
All depends on how good the stock base is. But I don’t pretend to run 9s @ 180, so my opinion doesn’t mean shit. :hay:
hell, a fucking crankscrape can be worth 10 flywhp on some apps. :lol:
[quote=“ablakez28,post:103,topic:24902"”]
garbage
[/quote]
couldnt have said it better myself
[quote=“Final GTS,post:102,topic:24902"”]
BADAZZ- Yes, Because the guys that invented the atomic bomb posted the design info in the newspaper the next day after testing.
[/quote]
The scientists that invented the atomic bomb were some of the most intelligent people in the world working on one of the most top secret projects in history. You have a dyno graph and an attitude with absolutely no technical explanation for your ‘greatness’. If you crave the attention, then there are plenty to accomodate, but anyone who has put an engine together knows that you can explain your methods without explaining your process.
I was interested in hearing what makes this build so different, since the horsepower number itself doesnt seem to be the point of this thread. If its a change in piston design, say so. If its a stroker size no one else has made work, mention it. But if you dont offer anything technical that we may find informative, and none of the cars you build are available for races, then that about covers it for me, because I dont run a dyno spinning business.
[quote=“FormulaLS1,post:105,topic:24902"”]
hmmm now thats everyones an expert engine builder on here…because they put together a few small blocks :lol:
How many motors has everyone blown up in the past few years? Not putting down anywhere near this much HP?
[/quote]
and your an expert too then? maybe take your own advice and stay out of this thread too?
[quote=“Adictd2b00st,post:110,topic:24902"”]
and your an expert too then? maybe take your own advice and stay out of this thread too?
[/quote]
I at no point questioned any technical aspects of this setup…
Mike at Innovative is qualified to debate tuning issues…with Dan
A few other people on here who are trying to debate how he got these HP numbers…should not talk when they can’t even put together anything close to this…like I said someone puts together a few motors and they are suddenly an expert…
Like someone said an 8% swing in HP numbers can be attributed to any number of factors anyways…
Who has a a FI car on here with anywhere close to these HP numbers? TurboLS1…Where did he out source the bottom end for his car? was it from any of the experts on here :lol:
Following behind that is what Chucks Firehawk…and JnJ put that together…but wait JnJ sucks at life so…
A lot of high HP FI engine building experts on here…:bloated:
Throwing together a couple LT1s and LS1s and throwing some spray on them and putting out numbers that are below or comparable to what everyone else in the country is doing does not make you an expert…sorry.
[quote=“FormulaLS1,post:111,topic:24902"”]
I at no point questioned any technical aspects of this setup…
Mike at Innovative is qualified to debate tuning issues…with Dan
A few other people on here who are trying to debate how he got these HP numbers…should not talk when they can’t even put together anything close to this…like I said someone puts together a few motors and they are suddenly an expert…
Like someone said an 8% swing in HP numbers can be attributed to any number of factors anyways…
Who has a a FI car on here with anywhere close to these HP numbers? TurboLS1…Where did he out source the bottom end for his car? was it from any of the experts on here :lol:
Following behind that is what Chucks Firehawk…and JnJ put that together…but wait JnJ sucks at life so…
A lot of high HP FI engine building experts on here…:bloated:
Throwing together a couple LT1s and LS1s and throwing some spray on them and putting out numbers that are below or comparable to what everyone else in the country is doing does not make you an expert…sorry.
[/quote]
lol i pretty much agree with what you just wrote, so i don’t even have anything to say to that 
[quote=“FormulaLS1,post:111,topic:24902"”]
A few other people on here who are trying to debate how he got these HP numbers…should not talk when they can’t even put together anything close to this…like I said someone puts together a few motors and they are suddenly an expert…
Throwing together a couple LT1s and LS1s and throwing some spray on them and putting out numbers that are below or comparable to what everyone else in the country is doing does not make you an expert…sorry.
[/quote]
Come on sherm, dont beat around the bush. Im questioning Dan, and you felt left out, so you’re questioning me. Thats fine, I have no problem defending myself to any questions you have. Ive built and am building a number of engines that perform very well. I race them hard, and when the parts hold up to my abuse, they will take anything that you can throw at them as well. If you’re not on board, it isnt stopping the rest of our customers from coming down to get fast.
So you are correct, Im not an “expert”, Im an engine builder. Dan isnt an expert either. You know who is? Gene Fulton. Thats an expert. Ive met him, nice guy, has no problem discussing his engines with you. Do you know why that is? Because he knows what talent he brings, and he plans on staying a step ahead. There is no voodoo to assembling an engine, its a mix of good parts, good procedure, and some history of asking the right questions from the experts that precede you.
Has PM Performance assembled a shortblock for a viper yet? No, but Id accept the job if I was asked, I’ll make anything fast. But Im assembling an engine just as capable, and I’ll tell you all about it when Im done. So all I ask is for some substance. If Dan wants to come watch us build faster cars, I have no problem with that. Our engine clean room has a window he can look through.
[quote=“BaD AZz Z/28,post:113,topic:24902"”]
Come on sherm, dont beat around the bush. Im questioning Dan, and you felt left out, so you’re questioning me. Thats fine, I have no problem defending myself to any questions you have. Ive built and am building a number of engines that perform very well. I race them hard, and when the parts hold up to my abuse, they will take anything that you can throw at them as well. If you’re not on board, it isnt stopping the rest of our customers from coming down to get fast.
So you are correct, Im not an “expert”, Im an engine builder. Dan isnt an expert either. You know who is? Gene Fulton. Thats an expert. Ive met him, nice guy, has no problem discussing his engines with you. Do you know why that is? Because he knows what talent he brings, and he plans on staying a step ahead. There is no voodoo to assembling an engine, its a mix of good parts, good procedure, and some history of asking the right questions from the experts that precede you.
Has PM Performance assembled a shortblock for a viper yet? No, but Id accept the job if I was asked, I’ll make anything fast. But Im assembling an engine just as capable, and I’ll tell you all about it when Im done. So all I ask is for some substance. If Dan wants to come watch us build faster cars, I have no problem with that. Our engine clean room has a window he can look through.
[/quote]
Call up any major profitable engine shop and ask them what tricks they use to stay ahead of other companies…Go look at Tony Mamo over at AFR not dropping every aspect of his setups out to the public…and he stays well ahead of the game.
I guess the difference here is running a shop on the side as a hobby…or turning a profit because of the results your products put out.
…the proof is in the results regardless…Dynos, Track times, Customer impressions…
Not trying to defend Dan in anyway shape or form here. When he worked on my car, there is no cutting corners or doing something half-assed. shit, if it is means getting 2 extra hp out of a setup, he will take the time to do this. I worked side by side with him on several things. Dan is developing a package that can be presented to potential customers. Racing is secondary. I am not sure if I spent so much on a project I would be ansy to race either. From knowing this kid as long as I have, he is smart as all fuck. If some of you would take the time to listen and not be douche bags, I am sure you can learn a thing or two.
[quote=“FormulaLS1,post:114,topic:24902"”]
Call up any major profitable engine shop and ask them what tricks they use to stay ahead of other companies…Go look at Tony Mamo over at AFR not dropping every aspect of his setups out to the public…and he stays well ahead of the game.
…the proof is in the results regardless…Dynos, Track times, Customer impressions…
[/quote]
What do you want me to ask Tony for you? Im pretty sure what you need to know is already on his website. If you need him to explain how to create cylinder heads from a solid piece of aluminum, he can tell you to go fly a kite. Experts dont need to tell you EVERYTHING, thats what makes them experts. But if you have an intelligent question, you’d be suprised how often you get an intelligent answer when asking the right person.
And Dan has been dropping information left and right…your trying to get specific details about what makes his setup unique and how be manages to get more power out the setup then others.
Why would he say that on a public forum when he he is currently in production and would hurt him from a business stand point?
Publishing trade secrets is how everyone gets ahead :bloated:
If you came up with a way to pull 10% more HP out of LT1 heads and you were trying to market these would you publish step by step instructions?
[quote=“FormulaLS1,post:117,topic:24902"”]
And Dan has been dropping information left and right…your trying to get specific details about what makes his setup unique and how be manages to get more power out the setup then others.
Why would he say that on a public forum when he he is currently in production and would hurt him from a business stand point?
Publishing trade secrets is how everyone gets ahead :bloated:
If you came up with a way to pull 10% more HP out of LT1 heads and you were trying to market these would you publish step by step instructions?
[/quote]
What details have been provided? That there are “tricks” in the bottom end. Its a bottom end, not a cylinder head, not a cam selection. You balance cost vs strength vs weight and then you reduce friction losses. I dont need his ‘tricks’ in order to build an engine. But if I found 100hp more than anyone else could, Id back that up by saying what I modified. Not how I modified it, thats for me to know.
[quote=“BaD AZz Z/28,post:118,topic:24902"”]
What details have been provided? That there are “tricks” in the bottom end. Its a bottom end, not a cylinder head, not a cam selection. You balance cost vs strength vs weight and then you reduce friction losses. I dont need his ‘tricks’ in order to build an engine. But if I found 100hp more than anyone else could, Id back that up by saying what I modified. Not how I modified it, thats for me to know.
[/quote]
You realize working on F-bodys is not profitable the market is already saturated with extremely good shops with long history’s.
There are a lot less Viper performance shops and getting an edge in that market can your business very profitable.
I am just a computer nerd though…I did not goto school for business…so this is pointless ranting.
HEYYYY GUYS IM HERE TO LEARN YOUR TRADE SECRETS LOL WHY CARE I’M ONLY GONNA COPY WHUT YUR DOING
J/K
KISSES