I like the idea of the people being trained, but who pays for the training? It gets very messy at this point. If people must pay for their own training, to exercise a right granted in the Constitution, that is a huge infringement. If the government pays for it, it grants them the right to decide who may and may not enter said training program, thereby creating a way for them to deny citizens the rights granted them in the Constitution.
I think as gun owners we are going about this the wrong way. People want free college (K-12 is already provided on the taxpayers dime), and educations is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. I think we ought to push for the government to buy us guns when we turn 18. It’s a right…right?
That would help to get all the pansies off our backs about where we can take the guns that we bought with our own money.
i seriously hope you are joking.
there are societal reasons why education is free
giving everyone a gun is not going to make society better.
making people pay for education would send it even further down the shitter.
This is huge. Tuition now, in most schools, is already rediculous and it’s only going up… Assume you are a non-carrying student, paying your own way through college and all the sudden you get a tuition rate hike because the kid that sits next to you wants the school to pay for him to carry a gun. I’d be pretty pissed. I think the test/class should take place when trying to get your carrier’s permit. that way everyone has to do it, its at the expense of those who choose to carry, and not at the expense of the college which in turn trickles down to the student anyway.
Another issue: I’m assuming that those of you opposing these restrictions are gun carriers yourselves… and you’ve all stressed the importance of gun safety, keeping a level head while carrying, etc. so that’s great. i’m sure you’re all more than capable of handling your firearm without waiving it in someones face on a daily basis, or blowing a hole in your own foot (or mine).
But what about those who aren’t? Think back to some of the classes you’ve been in. I myself can say I’ve had some real fucking goons sitting next to me in classes, and i cringe at the thought of them carrying a sharp pencil… now we’re going to put a gun in his hand? i think you’d be far more likely to see shootings popping up from accidents or petty arguments gone wrong, than we are seeing now from the one or two crazy’s that go on shooting sprees now.
I also did not read the previous 11 pages, so sorry if this is a repeat.
Right, but you don’t see the other side of that. I go through training, buy a gun, pay for a background check, and generally inconvenience myself to help make the school a safer place, and protect the wimps who think guns are scary.
Not to mention, I’m forced to pay money, spend my time and effort, to exercise a right.
That’s the problem with mandatory training, it changes a right into a privilege.
i think you misunderstood me when i said “making people pay for education would make society worse”
i meant if you took away public schools (tax payer funded) & you made everyone pay out of pocket to go to private schools…society would be worse…cause a large majority wouldn’t even bother. bad education is better then none @ all.
you have to (or at least used to have to ) take a hunter safety course to get your hunting license. Same with a drivers license. I see no real problem with having people get at least a little bit of information when they apply for a CCW, depending on how it was administered. At least here in PA you can get one. good luck in MD if you’re not a cop or military.
taking a course means nothing… everyone with a drives license took a course/passed a test. & probably a good 50%+ need to be taken off the road & their license taken away.
I see a handful everyday.
a course is not gonna help some tough guy with a short fuse when someone hits on his girl @ frat party.
you have to remember who were dealing will… 80+ of the population does not use discretion, &/or have good ethics/morals
granted we’re talking about college kids & not the general public, so you’d hop e that percentage is lower since they made it to college, but still its high percentage of ass clowns.
i totally support what you are saying. i myself do not carry a gun(i guess that makes me one of the wimps). but fully support my right to do so… although the constitution says you have the right to carry a gun. not the right to carry a free gun.
but i quoted your question “who pays for it?”. my point was, i just dont want it to be me. i dont want my bill to go up on something that, in my oppion, i’m already over-paying for so that the college can pass along the cost of someone being granted the permission he is already granted by the constitution.
Those posting in this thread in favor of gun-free college campuses seem to think that if guns were allowed suddenly every college student would be packing heat and sporting an itchy trigger finger. The same rules that govern and keep chaos from ensuing presently off-campus would still function on-campus.
The majority of areas of particular concern mentioned in this thread occur just as much, and most likely even more (especially at bigger schools) off-campus, where those involved could potentially be legally carrying now anyways (parties, clubs, gyms, etc.).
a course is not gonna help some tough guy with a short fuse when someone hits on his girl @ frat party.
you have to remember who were dealing will… 80+ of the population does not use discretion, &/or have good ethics/morals
They why aren’t random violent shootings being done by concealed carry holders already? Did you forget that we already DO have the ability to legally carry concealed in PA?
granted we’re talking about college kids & not the general public, so you’d hop e that percentage is lower since they made it to college, but still its high percentage of ass clowns.
Now your saying that college students would be LESS inclined to commit random violent acts then the general population, given the right to carry a gun?
Since the occurence of legal non-college student concealed carry holders committing random violence is basically zero, based on your logic, random violence would never occur by college student concealed carry holders (you seem to have totally defeated your own argument).
jesus what is the big fiasco with this??? it’s pretty simple…
everyone carries guns everywhere… you aren’t safe ANYWHERE!!! malls, grocery stores, in cars, walking on bike trails, at home and sometimes At WORK!!! EEEKKKKK omg we are all DEAD.
wrong. there are more guns out there than (obviously) most anyone in this thread realizes…
anyway… if we were allowed to carry, some crazy dude starts shooting, but he woudn’t be the only one
if some asshole pulls out to take him out and shoots an innocent… it’s not “sorry about that”… it’s called 2nd degree murder… no intent, but reality is reality. take a life they take yours.
people that legally carry guns do so out of want… it’s true that most licensed owners do know how to carry and handle a gun… a training course would makes sense… we have to train with guns to hunt and kill animals but not people(not implying a conseal to carry is to hunt people - lol)??? seems like an obvious oversight in county run gun permit regulations…
why do people think that legally allowing people to carry will result in more crimes (illegal - to point out the obvious)…?
I honestly can’t believe some of the stuff I’m reading from people saying college students will pull a gun on anything if allowed to carry in school or what not…
I guess they think nobody carries anywhere else either… I don’t see how college campus is any different than the mall or anywhere else.
just because you don’t see someone carrying a firearm doesn’t mean they aren’t. we perceive safety because they appear unarmed, yet people do carry firearms everyday. people who choose not to carry are going to have a very hard time identifying someone who does, plain and simple
and I’m willing to bet if you have a license to carry you are not as likely to commit random acts of violence. concealed carry holders are law abiding citizens
Not really an oversight at all, the hunting is a choice of past time you make therefore you pay for the liscence, and sometimes pay for the hunter safety course.
Gun ownership on the other hand is a RIGHT. How could the goverment justify making you pay to exercise your RIGHT? I do understand that some states do mandate training prior to issueing a CCW permit, I just at a lost as to how they feel they can do that. And in most of those states, it is the gun owners that pay for the training.
The other thing that I’m at a loss about is why my PA CCW permit isn’t good throughout the country. I mean I went through a National backround check to buy my handgun, another National check to get my permit, but it is only good in PA. Seems like BS to me. It’s not like I’m exerciseing a state right, it is a Federal right. Then you have Darkstar in the fucked up state of MD, that doesn’t think he has any rights.
i was speaking of the fact that you have to take the hunters saftey to get a license… at least to get one at an age, right? I know i had to… I think a course on saftey and a quick shoot (with hunters saftey it was shooting trap) and be done.
but yeah, i agree with the federal thing… but then again, drivers licenses are only good per state :ugh:
the way i see it is you have the right to bear arms. from my understanding it does not give you the right to conceal the arms. I dont think you should have to take a training course just to own guns. I think you should have to take a class for carrying concealed.
