Asking a police officer to be devoid of human emotion is pretty tough. If some dude punches your sister in the face and walks away, chances are you’re going to go after him before you call the cops and file paper work.
If you are resisting arrest, you will be restrained however necessary. I’m not saying pull out a baton and break a dude’s legs, but if force needs to be used, I’m completely fine with it. We demand that police deal with everything from getting cats from trees to dealing with the scum of the earth. In doing so they are supposed to withhold all emotion, be politically correct all the time, and follow text book procedure? Please, these are human beings we are talking about.
I’m not condoning police brutality at all, but sometimes you get what you deserve.
This!
Self defense applies to citizens just as it does to cops. If they are defending with equal force to restrain a fighter that’s fair enough. Nobody is suggesting the cops should let people sucker punch them or kick them in the balls take it and smile. Those people in the video were no longer fighting back, no matter what was done earlier that might have been edited out. If you can’t keep a cool, rational head you would make a shitty cop. Cops are put under immense stress at times, if you can’t handle the stress and hold composure you are no better than the criminal you’re pounding the fuck out of and should not be in a position of power.
For the record I am all for using a taser or non lethal tool to subdue a rowdy combatant, I’m not looking to disarm a cop from protecting himself. It’s not even a fine line of abuse of power really, people know what’s reasonable or not within seconds. If you have someone on PCP or shit like Rodney King and he won’t go down and keeps fighting, well shit has to get ugly. Once the person is complying with orders and not fighting it’s time to bring it back down several levels. I’m not saying it would be easy, that’s why not everyone should be allowed on the police force. Everyone is human and makes mistakes, clubbing a person laying still and breaking their leg isn’t a mistake.
^^^This
I also believe most cops are undereducated and under paid and I believe that plays a big part in why they let their emotions control their actions.
My point exactly. Saying something is justified entails that they are the ones delivering justice. That is the opposite of what their job is. Police are simply enforcers of the law. Sentinals of society.
I expect cops to be professionals and that means putting your emotions aside. That’s part of being a professional, if you are unable to then you should not be a cop.
---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------
Normally I don’t say things like this openly but, you should really stop trying to post in any sort of conversation where logic and higher cognitive thought is used. Re-read your post that I quoted and try to comprehend what you replied with. It shouldn’t matter what happened to cause the brutality. It’s still brutality. Subduing a person is different then mercilessly beating someone who is helpless. What part of that is so hard to understand.
It’s impossible to say “I would have reacted differently” when people aren’t put in the same situation as the cops. Again, they are human, they make mistakes, they have emotions. I give police a ton of respect because they do a job that’s dangerous, and undesired by most.
Like I said, I’m not for kicking the shit out of a guy because he’s mouthing off. If less police brutality means mental evaluations for cops, fine.
Most of the people have no way of cooperating based on how they are being held on the ground. Hard to put your hands behind your back when the officer is beating the shit out of you. But hey as long as he yell’s stop resisting its ok :ham:
It’s so easy to play Monday Quarterback. Does excessive force happen? YES. Want to avoid excessive force? Comply with the lawful order. If you commit a serious crime, and the LEO asks you to put your hands up, and you don’t, he’s going to assume you are reaching for a weapon. WHY? Because a lot of times the bad guy is… not all the time…but the most important thing is going home at the end of your shift sans bullet holes.
I could go on and on… being on the other side is EXTREMELY different.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------
Meh, you’re right to an extent… the thing is, hypothetically, let’s say a bad guy just shot 3 innocent people… when I go to arrest him, I’m going to use a lot more force than say, someone who is being arrested for administrative reasons, because, the guy who shot three people has just proven he has no care for law and order.
LEOs are trained to escalate force depending on the situation. The easiest way to stay out of that situation is, don’t commit the crime in the first place.
Again, I’m not siding on the LEOs that do commit acts of excessive force, but a lot of times, the media portrays it liberally and don’t tell the prior knowledge or reason behind the force. Just sayin’
I hear what you’re saying about media being biased but in situations like this the camera doesn’t lie. Actions speak way louder than liberal media bias words.
here’s a perfect example of why cops try as hard as possible to control the hands. It appears the guy is setting down the rifle…but what you don’t notice is he’s also reaching for a handgun in his rear pocket… It’s safer to assume the bad guy has a weapon when he won’t show you his hands…hence why you always hear, show me your hands, and you see aggravation and force by the LEO when the bad guy doesn’t comply
I wonder what it’s like going to work every day where 99% of the public “hates” you… where no matter what you do you are criticized by the public? I wonder. I wonder what society would be like without police. I wonder if the 99% I spoke about just now realized what a day in the life of a cop is really like? I wonder, maybe, just maybe, if we REALLY knew, if our opinion would change.
Put it this way, if you do the wrong thing, you or your partner dies… if you do the right thing, you are hanged by the media and liberal courts.
I’ll be the first to admit that when I was younger, I was a fucking punk. Before my current LE career, I always thought they were out to get me… I realize now that the majority of LEOs are trying to make for a better place… they deal with shitty situations ALL the time… they need to make split second decisions to save their,their partners, innocent lives as well as take care of the threat, and also wonder how it will be portrayed because they know it’s on camera, and wonder how shitty the lawsuit is going to be, if they are going to prison, get suspended from work, or get fired.
Oh fuck me for getting involved with this.
im with Newman and Carnut on this.
Jay s put it quite precisely. What I fear is me doing something stupid and some dumb fuck in a lumina pulling me over with a gun and me catching it on tape. What did you say the officer didn’t show you id? Well thats ok, you get 16 years for taping him. Yay justice! How come a cop can tape me when im pulled over but I can’t tape him? I know that a lot of cops are good people that really want to make a difference but its that bad ones that make it harder for the good ones to earn the public’s respect.
Also sedlemier if the police is trained to step up their use of force then why did the undercover officer come out of his car with a weapon drawn? There was no force displayed by the rider. There was also no physical vehicle on vehicle contact between the suspect and the officer’s vehicle, which would arguably be considered use of deadly force and would justify the officer using his weapon. Over reaction on the cops part? Yup. One other clip showed a guy get flung out of a vehicle after a persuit. He looked pretty subdued to me all passed out and such in that ditch. That didn’t stop the good ol boy cops from throwing in a few dozen punches and kicks though. Let’s face it. There are the rules we(regular folk) play by and then there are the rules that police play by. Strangely enough le’s rules tend to be quite flexible. But hey let’s face it. Its always our word against theirs and we are always guilty until proven innocent… or was it the other way around
If you are a LEO good for you. Be the best you can be and know that I have nothing but respect for you. Just like I have nothing but respect for the few of my childhood friends that are now in LE.
but let’s face it. Some cops just aren’t wired to be good cops. If you beat a man like an animal just because you can then you deserve to have him as your cell mate. Im sorry but various encounters with bad cops has done nothing but make it harder for me to see the good ones. I can go on and on and alsoget into some personal stories but its getting late and typing on a cell is a bitch. Besides im sure the nyspeed spelling and grammar police will be all over me anyway lol.
the off duty cop who pulled a gun on the guy on the bike is a douchebag… first of all, if you’re off duty, you should NEVER get involved in any type of LE activity unless someones life is at risk… and trust me…that court case is fuckin bullshit… but that’s our justice system for you.
the video where the guy is flinged out into the ditch…well, it’s clear as day, the cop was running and tripped over the white line while going to jump in the ditch and arrest the suspect… when this happened the other officers tried to help their fellow officer up and surprisingly they all tripped over the same white line… and while all this was happening the suspect disturbed a hornets nest and the hornets swarmed him… the officers involved then attempted to swat away the aggravated bees and save the suspects life…who apparently was allergic to bees /sarcasm
there was a case here in WA where a city cop tried to subdue a suspect who was mentally retarded… the suspect would not comply so they tased him… well the taser stopped his heart… the cop is now spending 10 years in prison for “excessive force” … is that justice for ya? There’s a hell of a lot of cases where cops are sentenced for excessive force, when in fact, they were just attempting to arrest someone… but you don’t hear about those cases…or how about a BP agent in TX who arrested a drug smuggler, the guy was carrying a backpack full of weed across the border… so this kid wasn’t a saint… well when the agent made the arrest, the kid wasn’t cooperating and being noncompliant… the agent then grabbed the cuffs and twisted them (which hurts) to gain control of the smuggler… well, the smuggler (who is an illegal immigrant, smuggling drugs into the country) pressed charges… he still had bruises on his shoulders from the heavy backpack straps that he was carrying the dope in… BUT no marks on his wrist… well, it went to court, and the agent was sentenced to two years for excessive force, on an illegal alien, smuggling dope into our country. JUSTICE? but you don’t hear about that stuff… becasue it wasn’t caught on camera.
also… cop in prison /= bad guy in prison… when cops go to prison, they spend all their time in solitary confinement… and if thye are let in gen pop, they are usually killed.
like I said… a lot of those videos show are ridiculous and I don’t agree with them… but some of them are justified… for example, the first video… swing a pipe bender at a cop…get dead.
oh, and also, people don’t usually start taping until something happens… those cops are usually responding to a shots fired call or something of the like… if you were heading somewhere that you knew someone has a gun and is firing it, you probably wouldn’t be mister nice guy,either.
and one last thing… so, a cop roughs a bad guy up because he isn’t compliant… the cop is the asshole now right?.. but, let’s say because the cop didn’t rough the guy up a bit… the bad guy catchs the cop in the face with an elbow, knocks him out…and runs off… now that bad guy goes and kills someone else… guess what? the family of the person who was killed after the cop tried to subdue the bad guy now is suing to cop who didn’t “do his job” and will probably win. now half of that cops paycheck is going to that family… that shit has happened. just saying, there’s two sides to almost every story
I don’t disagree with fucking someone up to arrest them. If some cop wants to lu-kang bicycle kick a dude who is trying to rob a convenience store to subdue him, that’s fine. (And rad).
What I do have a problem with is when that dude gets knocked out, they give him a few more kicks to the ribs because emotions have taken over.
