2hp/cc?
Isn’t a KA 2400cc?
Does that mean I can make 4800hp from my N/A KA?
excuse me cubic inch. sorry, don’t be stupid adam, i know you knew what i meant.
since i am part of HADA i acually he been to many honda dyno days with ITR 1.8l stock engines best pull i have seen out of 3 of them 174fwhp and a even lower amount of torque…and those engines rev to all hell…
ok so lets say we can get the 250hp…how are you going to maintain that 240ftlbs torque? i just dont see it ever happening…show me with the maths how yuo are going to do that?
whats so hard to belive about it? a stock ITR puts down 1.9hp/cc the guys at canadian cilnerhead will tell you a KA head will flow almost just as much out of the box…so whats so hard to say a KA can’t put 2hp/cc out?
Shit everyone will agree a honda can make 300+hp NA, but no a KA can’t…as a rule of thumb a NA motor can achieve 3.3hp/cc. Now i relize that is with massive work and tonns of R&D, BUT 2hp/cc isn’t that hard to do. I’ll prove it soon enough.[/quote]
i wasn’t arguing torque, especilly for a honda
ADAM, how do you calculate HP?
Why at High Rmp will you always have more HP than torque?
Like i said, i’m not arguing that a honda has no torque. but do the math…a KA in NA will produce more MAX torque than HP, but at a much lower rpm, and then it will drop off as the RPM’s increase…
I don’t get why people think a KA can’t make nice numbers in NA.
I know a great example of a b18 stroked to 2.2L that runs the 1/4 in the 9’s…minimum amount of HP if you do the caulc is 350hp…i know it’s a full out drag motor with 10’s of thousands of dollars into it, but if a HONDA motor can do it at 2.2L a KA can hit 250hp easy. Just based on the long stroke the KA has it will have more torque than HP.
with more money and the proper tuning a ka can hit 300hp at the crank. I’ll prove it, as soon as we find a tuning solution to our highcomp KA, we’ll push it until it pops and then build one of my other 6 de blocks and keep doing it until i find all the weak spots.
at 1000$ a build up and a one time investment in a ported head, i’m still cheeper to do this than to swap in a sr. i can build 2-3 of these for the price of a stock sr swap.
I only used honda as an example of hp/cuibic inch, i wasn’t arguing it has torque…honda’s have never been known to have any torque.
btw…whats the amount of cubic inches in 1.8l??? and whats 174fwhp at the crank? stands up to what i said about the hp/cubic inch…again why is so hard to say a ka can’t produce close to 2hp/ci if a honda can?
Why?
With a few bolt-ons, cams and ECU tuning, an RSX Type S can run over 220whp from a 2.0L.
whats so hard to belive about it? a stock ITR puts down 1.9hp/cc the guys at canadian cilnerhead will tell you a KA head will flow almost just as much out of the box…so whats so hard to say a KA can’t put 2hp/cc out?
Shit everyone will agree a honda can make 300+hp NA, but no a KA can’t…as a rule of thumb a NA motor can achieve 3.3hp/cc. Now i relize that is with massive work and tonns of R&D, BUT 2hp/cc isn’t that hard to do. I’ll prove it soon enough.[/quote]
not hard to belive at all boys and girls , Graham at canadian cylinder head actually said The ka flows as well as a gsr not a itr out of the box with a port and flow it will flow as well as a itr if not better ,
so poeple ask how come u came u can make more power with the honda engines then the ka24de , well a few simple rasons , rod ratio’s, rotating mass, and of course rpm’s,
now a ka can be built to make huge amounts of power in n/a form by performing a few simple mods, raise compression, exhaust and intake!
250hp is not that hard to attain since we have such a lare displacement motor!
with a good balance , rods pistons, cams, upgraded valve train, bearings , and A.R.P. everything u can easily rev out to over 10,000 rpm on a ka,
go nutz shorten the rods and get a set of custom pistons made to stay at your desired compression and u can easily and reliably build a ka to rev to 12,000 rpm,
remember kids there is no replacement for displacement( blah blah blah forced induction kiss my ass were tlking N/A)
the ka in theory using the imperfect engine model use by industry today shows that with our ci displacement of 145.89665653495(approxamately) we can make in theory around 481.458966534 hp to the crank.
oh ya 16.45 cc is one ci so to get cu u take our motor’s cc’c and divide by 16.45 and u have our ci displacement ,
so 2400/ 16.45= 145.xxxxxxxxx now u take that 145.xxxxx * 3.3 /hp u end up with a number something like 481.xxxxxx
so there u see boys and girls 250 hp and 240 ft lbs of torque are easily attainable .
now take horse power and throw it out the window cuz it doesnt exist except for in the minds of the people that cant really comprehend the true mesurment of displaced energy .
so at 6500 rpm( i chosse that rpm cuz u all argue that ka’s dont rev)
388 ft/lbs of torque will be produce on that 100% efficent theoretical motor were speaking of with a displacement of 2400cc’s
heres the math horsepower5252/rpm or 4815252/6500=388.648
now lets take those numbers and use them in the reall world where we take engine efficency in to place nor an engine is only about 75 percent efficeint right ? well we’ll use 75% anyways it might be more, but ill give u kids the benefit of the doubt because ka’s are crap :roll: (sarcasam)
so we take our 388.648 ft/lbs of torque and leave about 75% of it there take the rest and throw it into parasitic loss
so now we take 388.649 ft/lbs*0.75 =291.486 ft/lbs still at 6500rpm
now lets take that and turn it back into horspower so u understand it agian cuz i know that true displaced energy is a hard concept to grasp
291.486 ft/lbs*6500/5252=360.75hp
so now tell me agian why u cant make 2.4l make 250hp and 240ft/lsb of torque,
and if u want to get into cfm and parasitic loss, and all that other mumbo jumbo, dont forget to add in rod ratio effects, combustion chamber design, port design , quench area design, cam profiles, and tuning , but if u cant disprove basic math and theory blow me cuz i dont have the time to get anyfarther into this
oh ya if u really want to get farther into how to make more power otu of an n/a by throwing conventional engine models out the window and goinjg into theoretical prosses of enrgy production by way of internal combustion engines let me know, we ca tlk about crankcase scavanging by way of exhaust back pulse, maybe into my other theorys of energy output increase
Hahahaha, yes now lets apply this to the real world, where DFR thinks he can do this with $1000, less than an SR swap.
Making 250 hp isn’t hard to believe out of a ka, but making 240 torque at the same time? And all of this on a single cam, and through the stock intake manifold?
Matt wont break 220 whp, garantied.
hahahah ed ed ed, the number is already reduced to give u 25% loss
, 250 whp will be attained, if my honda buddies can make 238 to the wheels ( yes i was at the dyno pull) with all stock parts , other than upgraded cams, with a 1.8, matty will do it with a ka24, i guarantee it ,
oh and ed how much u paying for sr swaps, cuz were tlking one that is done correctly not a hack job like most ive seen done
oh ya and saying matt wont break 220whp, ok, sure, but who said matt is doing it on his own? next time say hector and matt, cuz ull be proven wrong by two people not only one,
ed, i never said i’d hit 240 torque…some other guys was talking about that…and i know this one won’t hit huge numbers…it’s learning curve.
Lets put it this way. Whats the cheapest sr swap you’ve heard of? round 3000-3500$ right?
thats for 205 at the crank…give or take some. add a fuel pump exhaust, boost controler, and frontmount you’re well over 6 and still only making maybe 250…you can’t push the stock stuff much farther.
so lets say the figure is 6g’s…i garuntee, for 6g’s i can make a NA KA hit those same numbers as the sr if not higher.
i’m not gonna argue anymore about this, it’s not about sr or kat vs NA, it’s about the fact a KA CAN MAKE MORE THAN 250hp in NA. and i’m not the first to try. there are plenty of guys hitting close to that in the 510’s…ask around the zcar club…
And it’s DOHC not sohc.
BAHAHHA 238 WHP with just cams?!??!?! HAHAHAH
Yes I’m saying to the wheels so people don’t have to agrue after about how much drive train loss there is.
And if your imaginary friend can make 238 to the wheels on a 1.8L with just cams, why can’t matt make 220 on a 2.4L ??
Hahaha, question my SR swap??
ed…ask jantos
what he dyno’d his ka at…
then argue…that’s my last words in this thread.
how’s the car running?
BAHAHHA 238 WHP with just cams?!??!?! HAHAHAH
Yes I’m saying to the wheels so people don’t have to agrue after about how much drive train loss there is.
And if your imaginary friend can make 238 to the wheels on a 1.8L with just cams, why can’t matt make 220 on a 2.4L ??
Hahaha, question my SR swap??[/quote]
who said it was parts from only one motor smart ass??? who said hmmm gsr block, type r head, jdm sir intake manifold, sir crank, gsr rods, milled head, port and polish,exhaust, intake, and crank pully, all stock motor parts, meaning from honda, never said they werent modified did i? learn to read i said stock parts not stock motor , stop being an assclown and use ur head,
I know you never said you’d hit 240 torque, but the car being posted about claims that number.
Even if you build a KA all motor, for the same amount as an SR swap you can’t go anywhere from there. SR swap leaves you with tons of options for making a lot more power.
This isn’t a KA vs SR thread anyways, it’s how much power can you make for how much money on a NA KA.
I don’t believe you’ll make 220 whp, and I don’t believe jantos’ numbers eithor.
BAHAHHA 238 WHP with just cams?!??!?! HAHAHAH
Yes I’m saying to the wheels so people don’t have to agrue after about how much drive train loss there is.
And if your imaginary friend can make 238 to the wheels on a 1.8L with just cams, why can’t matt make 220 on a 2.4L ??
Hahaha, question my SR swap??[/quote]
who said it was parts from only one motor smart ass??? who said hmmm gsr block, type r head, jdm sir intake manifold, sir crank, gsr rods, milled head, port and polish,exhaust, intake, and crank pully, all stock motor parts, meaning from honda, never said they werent modified did i? learn to read i said stock parts not stock motor , stop being an assclown and use ur head,[/quote]
So based on all these parts, how is matt going to make this kind of power?? With b16b pistons?? Euro accord intake manifold??
My current SR swap is costing me around 3000-3500 and I assure you I will have a lot more than 205hp at the crank.
I READ THE NEWS TODAY OHHHHH BOYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyyy
with a good balance , rods pistons, cams, upgraded valve train, bearings , and A.R.P. everything u can easily rev out to over 10,000 rpm on a ka,
go nutz shorten the rods and get a set of custom pistons made to stay at your desired compression and u can easily and reliably build a ka to rev to 12,000 rpm,
:bsflag:
Higher compression pistons and shorter rods will not help the engine rev higher, especially at 10-12000 rpms.
so ur telling me if u shorten the rods till u have a near perfect rod stroke ratio of 1.74:1 and have to make custom sized piston accordingly , balence the motor u cant rev a ka out to 10000 rpm, ur smart, stop reading magazines and start building motors maybe u will learn somehting, tell me why u cant rev ouyt to that rpm?