N/A Power !!!KA24

[Hector]

@AppleSauce

[quote=Hector][quote=AppleSauce][quote=Hector]hahahah ed ed ed, the number is already reduced to give u 25% loss
, 250 whp will be attained, if my honda buddies can make 238 to the wheels ( yes i was at the dyno pull) with all stock parts , other than upgraded cams, with a 1.8, matty will do it with a ka24, i guarantee it ,

oh and ed how much u paying for sr swaps, cuz were tlking one that is done correctly not a hack job like most ive seen done

BAHAHHA 238 WHP with just cams?!??!?! HAHAHAH

Yes I’m saying to the wheels so people don’t have to agrue after about how much drive train loss there is.

And if your imaginary friend can make 238 to the wheels on a 1.8L with just cams, why can’t matt make 220 on a 2.4L ??

Hahaha, question my SR swap??[/quote]

who said it was parts from only one motor smart ass??? who said hmmm gsr block, type r head, jdm sir intake manifold, sir crank, gsr rods, milled head, port and polish,exhaust, intake, and crank pully, all stock motor parts, meaning from honda, never said they werent modified did i? learn to read i said stock parts not stock motor , stop being an assclown and use ur head,[/quote]

So based on all these parts, how is matt going to make this kind of power?? With b16b pistons?? Euro accord intake manifold??[/quote]

no silly were going to use d16z6 parts, i guess with him winning the king of the street award and running 12.9 in his car he cant have any power

no were not using honda parts on the ka thank u, but what i am saying is u can make alot of hp with a ka, just not in your small minds, or with ur skill level, dont belive it now if u dont want to , u dont have to , what i am saying is i will make that kind of power with matts motor, and i will prove it to u and thats the bottom line, u dont think it can be done fine, not saying u have to try it , im saying it can and will be done, u can post a thousand times and say it cant be done, aall u guys say u cant but have nothing to back up your statements as to why it cant be done, i have provided the math and shown u it can be done, yet u say no, so u resort to making silly comments about using honda parts on a ka,

show me that u have the intelligence to bring something worthwhile to this arguement, show me soem numbers and prove to me it cant be done, show me why it cant be done , show me ur reasoning as to why m\y theory that is based on current engine models is disproven by your infinte knowledge and i will bow down, until then ur just spiting shit out yur lip

[Hector]

@Pavel

My current SR swap is costing me around 3000-3500 and I assure you I will have a lot more than 205hp at the crank.

good , i hope u make tons of power, best wishes to you, nobodys argueing how much power u can make with an sr( well not me at least) i know what those motors can do, ive been tuning and been around modified cars since i was sixteen, this kinda reminds me of the honda kids 5 years ago that thought a cold air intake would make u faster than a ferrari, i hope u make lots of power , i hope u have an extremely fast car, and im not being sarcastic, i hope everybody makes a kazillion horse power and make nissans the fastest rides on the street, alot of people on here arent being realistic pavel , iknow what ur up to with ur swap, and im happy for u , nobodys knocking ur thought on ur final goal, nobods saying u wont make alot of power, nobody saying what ur doing cant be done!

i see that ur not here flaming me or matt, congratulations on yur srswap, peace

[AppleSauce]

@Hector

no were not using honda parts on the ka thank u, but what i am saying is u can make alot of hp with a ka, just not in your small minds, or with ur skill level, dont belive it now if u dont want to , u dont have to , what i am saying is i will make that kind of power with matts motor, and i will prove it to u and thats the bottom line, u dont think it can be done fine, not saying u have to try it , im saying it can and will be done, u can post a thousand times and say it cant be done, aall u guys say u cant but have nothing to back up your statements as to why it cant be done, i have provided the math and shown u it can be done, yet u say no, so u resort to making silly comments about using honda parts on a ka,

show me that u have the intelligence to bring something worthwhile to this arguement, show me soem numbers and prove to me it cant be done, show me why it cant be done , show me ur reasoning as to why m\y theory that is based on current engine models is disproven by your infinte knowledge and i will bow down, until then ur just spiting shit out yur lip

See the problem is, matt says he’s going to do this for $1000.

Now price out, a GSR block, pistons, rods, Type-R head, cams, valve springs, retainers, type-r intake manifold, sir crank, crank pulley and all the other parts you failed to mention.

Or can you just walk into Lucky Star and ask them for all this, and say since it’s just stock parts you only want to pay $1000??

And your theory is that if you can do it on a honda, matt can do it on his KA.

Not to mention matt is doing this through a head that doesn’t flow as well as a GSR, i’m assuming 2 stock exhaust cams, and at best some mega squirt system that only controls fuel.

I don’t think matt will be able to drive the car to the dyno let alone make 220 whp. I hope he can prove me wrong.

[dnash]

[quote=“Hector”]

@dnash

with a good balance , rods pistons, cams, upgraded valve train, bearings , and A.R.P. everything u can easily rev out to over 10,000 rpm on a ka,
go nutz shorten the rods and get a set of custom pistons made to stay at your desired compression and u can easily and reliably build a ka to rev to 12,000 rpm,

:bsflag:

Higher compression pistons and shorter rods will not help the engine rev higher, especially at 10-12000 rpms.

so ur telling me if u shorten the rods till u have a near perfect rod stroke ratio of 1.74:1 and have to make custom sized piston accordingly , balence the motor u cant rev a ka out to 10000 rpm, ur smart, stop reading magazines and start building motors maybe u will learn somehting, tell me why u cant rev ouyt to that rpm?[/quote]

The thing is that the KA already has a less than perfect rod/stroke ratio. Using shorter rods will make the already poor reving KA rev even poorly.

165(KA rod length)mm/96(KAstroke length)mm=1.71825

So, therefore, for the KA to have the "ideal rod/stroke ratio of 1.74, you would have either shorten the stroke to 95mm, or get a 168mm long rod.

It’s funny you appear to know this stuff yet you expect the the rod/stroke ratio to increase by using a shorter rod. UR smart…

[Jedi_Car_Fan]

Or you could strap a large Co2 cylinder to the bottom of your car and break that puppy loose…

LOL

[Sasha_SG]

if you shorten the rod but use larger pistons you’ll still have the same effective strength. It’ll just be a lot less efficient since now you have a much heavier piston since its a hell of a lot taller.

The only way I see doing it is basically shaving the block and head down a LOT (I dont evne know if thats possible) to a square borexstroke (or pretty close) if you really want to rev. But you ahve to ask your self the question: would that even be a worthwhile modification? You loose displacement and torque so you can rev… which is making more power only by more explosions, the amount of extra heat and friction created is rediculous, the engine will last about 0.1% of how long it would if you left it 2.4L. Think about it

[Mr_zero]

All the talk about this KA stuff is pretty interesting. I wanna see numbers though. Dyno sheets, proper ones, with the types of mods the person has done. 1k for 220whp, not very much of a chance in my opinion. I would like to see it done if possible, but I highly doubt it.

Anyone have numbers to prove it?

[ADAM]

your smoking crack if you think you can get the KA to rev to 10k or 12k and stay alive for anything other than a few dyno pulls…

why dont you calculate what the max piston speed is for our engine and you will soon see that it becomes very apparent that high revs are out…which means work over time is out…which means high horsepower is out…

in fact ORF will pay out $100 to the $1000 engine challenge if it hits 200rwhp NA no nos no forced induction…i will come and watch the dyno to verify…adam

[ADAM]

on my sohc NA engine…with the following

ported head
503 lift 300 duration race cam
air intake
exhaust
JWT ecu
header

everything else was stock…stock compression

the engine made a WHOPPING… 143rwhp or about 164bhp whoo hoo

so if you run stupid compression say 14:1 with custom pistons…you think you are gonna get another 57rwhp out of the engine? the increase in compression WILL not produce enough thermo dynamic efficeincy to make another 57RWHP… NOTE even with a 503 lift cam ported head and 300 stinking duration the power already started to tail off at about 6300 rpm… though the engine was revving higher than normal and could make 7k

so lets look a bit deeper… lets say we CAN rev the motor to 8k, 9k, 10k

and since the torque is not gonna jump up at the end we can look at what power it WOULD have made IF we assume the torque would stay flat like it pretty much has as shown on the dyno plot…lets say we can keep 110ftlbs thru that whole rev range

110x8000/5252=167rwhp
110x9000/5252=188rwhp
110x10000/5252=209rwhp…

so ALL you have to do is either build up a motor like i did and get it to rev to ONLY 10,000rpm…or somehow pull some serious power out of the motor that SO FAR i have yet to ever see done…OTHER than all the mysterious “sunbuilt” GT motors that no dynos exist for …and where “reported” to have near 250hp…

seems easy to me on a $1000 BUDGET

[AppleSauce]

But Adam, hector has clearly proved that you can do it in a honda with stock parts, so it must be possible with a KA.

hahahaha

[ADAM]

IF you can get the revs than you can get the power… getting the revs is the key

Forced induction is the way to go…WHY cause its stress loads placed on the engine are LINEAR…while rev based power places EXPONENTIAL loads on the engine…

simple as that

[ADAM]

FYI same motor as green dyno above

using a 5030f1 nos kit and jacobs nos computer with 75 shot the motor pulled a 204rwhp and 194ftlbs…same dyno

adam

[ADAM]

BTW i have that 503 lift 300 duration race came for sale for the sohc motor

[Hector]

@dnash

[quote=Hector][quote=dnash]

with a good balance , rods pistons, cams, upgraded valve train, bearings , and A.R.P. everything u can easily rev out to over 10,000 rpm on a ka,
go nutz shorten the rods and get a set of custom pistons made to stay at your desired compression and u can easily and reliably build a ka to rev to 12,000 rpm,

:bsflag:

Higher compression pistons and shorter rods will not help the engine rev higher, especially at 10-12000 rpms.

so ur telling me if u shorten the rods till u have a near perfect rod stroke ratio of 1.74:1 and have to make custom sized piston accordingly , balence the motor u cant rev a ka out to 10000 rpm, ur smart, stop reading magazines and start building motors maybe u will learn somehting, tell me why u cant rev ouyt to that rpm?[/quote]

The thing is that the KA already has a less than perfect rod/stroke ratio. Using shorter rods will make the already poor reving KA rev even poorly.

165(KA rod length)mm/96(KAstroke length)mm=1.71825

So, therefore, for the KA to have the "ideal rod/stroke ratio of 1.74, you would have either shorten the stroke to 95mm, or get a 168mm long rod.

It’s funny you appear to know this stuff yet you expect the the rod/stroke ratio to increase by using a shorter rod. UR smart…[/quote]

i never checked the rod ratio of the ka , but thanks for posting, im glad ur actually telling me why it wont work

[Hector]

@Sasha (Turbo)

if you shorten the rod but use larger pistons you’ll still have the same effective strength. It’ll just be a lot less efficient since now you have a much heavier piston since its a hell of a lot taller.

The only way I see doing it is basically shaving the block and head down a LOT (I dont evne know if thats possible) to a square borexstroke (or pretty close) if you really want to rev. But you ahve to ask your self the question: would that even be a worthwhile modification? You loose displacement and torque so you can rev… which is making more power only by more explosions, the amount of extra heat and friction created is rediculous, the engine will last about 0.1% of how long it would if you left it 2.4L. Think about it

good info thanks

- Don’t take it to the next step Hector, and don’t tempt Ed, he’s on his best behaviour so he doesn’t get the boot… #3 :lol: - AR

[Hector]

@ADAM

on my sohc NA engine…with the following

ported head
503 lift 300 duration race cam
air intake
exhaust
JWT ecu
header

everything else was stock…stock compression

the engine made a WHOPPING… 143rwhp or about 164bhp whoo hoo

so if you run stupid compression say 14:1 with custom pistons…you think you are gonna get another 57rwhp out of the engine? the increase in compression WILL not produce enough thermo dynamic efficeincy to make another 57RWHP… NOTE even with a 503 lift cam ported head and 300 stinking duration the power already started to tail off at about 6300 rpm… though the engine was revving higher than normal and could make 7k

so lets look a bit deeper… lets say we CAN rev the motor to 8k, 9k, 10k

and since the torque is not gonna jump up at the end we can look at what power it WOULD have made IF we assume the torque would stay flat like it pretty much has as shown on the dyno plot…lets say we can keep 110ftlbs thru that whole rev range

110x8000/5252=167rwhp
110x9000/5252=188rwhp
110x10000/5252=209rwhp…

so ALL you have to do is either build up a motor like i did and get it to rev to ONLY 10,000rpm…or somehow pull some serious power out of the motor that SO FAR i have yet to ever see done…OTHER than all the mysterious “sunbuilt” GT motors that no dynos exist for …and where “reported” to have near 250hp…

seems easy to me on a $1000 BUDGET

u raise soem good points, but i dont see anywhere that matt said hes doing it for under a 1000 dollars, can someone please show me where he say he’ll do it for under a thousand dollars ? and if he did i dont agree with it being done for under a thousand dollars

well u guys can sit here and argue about it , if it works it works, if it doesnt, it doesnt , tell me which one of u has actually tried it and failed ?

adam u speak of a sohc that u made that u were only able to hit 143 whp, i dont see why u were only able to make such small numbers with it .

to apple sauce where do u come into this other than giving me comments, post useful info, not just comments, by the way a dyno run of 204 to the wheels with a 1.8 honda motor(all stock prts again) from my friend eric.

ya know the funny thing is the guys who make alot of the power, and make the really fast cars dont come on the net and post up what they do, or how fast they were or how much power they made because they dont care ,

u guys say nobody has done it and it cant be done because u find it on the internet , like grow up,

if matt doesnt do it good for u guys u can go sing an i told u so song to him, if we can do it good, hooray for us , i personally am going ka-t, i dont see the point of all motor personally , but u know what i dont really care either , but like i said thank u for posting some good info on the subject, but nothing is impossible

imn not doing this motor work to make u guys happy , im not helping matt to make u guys happy, he is my freind this is what i know , and i know i help my freinds , im done posting in here on this subject liek i said to adam, sasha, and d-nash thank u for posting useful info, to applesauce, good job on being a dink and not posting anything useful once again u have proven there are alot of wannabe tuners out here even in the nissan world,

adam if u wanna chat more add me to msn, u sound like an intelligent person

and maybe u guys should all consider that if u are all soo good at figuring out why u cant do it , maybe u guys might actually be good at figuring out a way that u can

[TekVicious]

Guys, many of the SCCA run-off cars are Nissans. They are usually SOHC and if you think they aren’t making well over 200 AND doing it above 8500 then you need to do more research. No offence to anyone here, but perhaps you should take a new approach on your next N/A build-up.

[TekVicious]

L-28 is a six cylinder Nissan. Old two valve per cylinder SOHC beast.

This one has over 300hp- http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1062560599/1062560599ss.htm

Ditto here… http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1090041972/1090041972ss.htm

Here’s a KA24e. Do you think that this is a sub 200hp car?
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1054755107/1054755107ld.jpg

Ditto…http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1054756152/1054756152ld.jpg

Heck…here’s a 1600cc SOHC Nissan that has 200 (according to owner)
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1084339752/1084339752lf1.jpg

Do a search under Nissan and Rebello.

Enjoy.

[boMex]

Hey Tek the cars you posted are running race gas. Here is an excerpt from one of your links.

Fuel System
Fuel Cell
Manufacturer: Fuel Safe
Capacity: 22 gallons
Fuel Pump: Twin Holley pumps
Fuel Type: VP C-12

Race gas isn’t really an option for anyone with a street car.

[TekVicious]

I thought that this was a given. WHo the hell wants a 250hp N/A 4 cylinder street car.
The only reason to make such an engine is to fit in a certain race class.
Other than that it’s a waste of time.
Rig up a turbo and go! :roll:

I think most guys here are saying what is or isn’t possible, not what;s possible at the pump.