NYSpeed Track Day #1 - Friday June 15th, 2007

Some people may disagree with me, but there is a big difference between AutoX and driving a road course. Smoothness is a bigger factor on road course at 120+mph than it is in a parking lot at 60mph or less.

Some people do learn faster than others, and some people start out a little further ahead of others, I was just generalizing that most novice drivers slow their cars too much for a turn. Braking, typically, is a digital input. You are either on them or not. It is not uncommon for a new driver to slowly apply the brakes before a turn, this builds up heat without slowing the car a great deal. This can cause the brakes to wear much faster.

Truth, I definitely wouldnt being seeing out of my right eye if it wasnt for my helmet. Shit the damn thing has a couple good marks from the incident. While it still passes tech, I really want to replace it. For anyone who doesnt know what I’m talking about, it’s why I switched the inside big barrel on the chicane.

Well, the first 4 laps I was pretty much immediately into the ABS at the end of the front and back straight, then clipping the exit curbing. There might have been a couple MPH there, but certainly not enough to make it worth the risk for a fun lapping day in my daily driver.

On the fifth lap, at the end of the back straight when the pedal was getting MUCH softer and I was debating about making the turn or plowing through the cones to continue down the blocked off oval, I decided maybe I should brake a little earlier, and not quite so hard.

Anyway, enough thread hijack. Now that the wife is back to work my racing budget should get restored in the next budget meeting, at which point I can do some upgrades :slight_smile:

lol, like me flying off the track after turn 1.

Btw I was the one with the Red Z28 you talked too. I’d be interested too see how your HPS work if you go in August, I know mine were fine but McMoo’s were practically on fire :lol:

Why did your exhaust sound like whistleing birds were stuck in it? I expected the bad ass sound of a LS1 when it went by and was very confused when I heard the sound of your exhaust.

Yeah, I gotta give credit where credit is due, I couldn’t catch the old pig.

Yeah I got stuck behind the silver Boxsterd along with the other neon for 10 laps of the first session. It was pretty obvious that he couldn’t swallow his pride and let faster Neons pass him. :stuck_out_tongue: Also at the second drivers’ meeting when Josh talked about letting people pass, he wasn’t paying attention, go figure. :tdown:

X…

Glad to finally see your Evo in action Sam, fast car and awesome suspension :tup:

LOL yeah the Canadian guys managing the stuff at the track asked me if I had whistle tips. The exhaust on the car is the adjustable Borla one, It was on the car when I bought it, I’m not exactly sure why it whistles all I know is I don’t like it :frowning:

Come on… I saw lots of digi cams and video cams going. Lets see some more pics/vids.

The first time I heard it, it sounded like tires spinning. I knew there was no way you had enough power to be spinning the tires at 90+ going in a straight line.

looks like TireRack might step up and take care of my delaminated / chunked HT10s… crosses fingers

Anyway you put it Dunnville is hell on brakes and tires. Back to back 190* turns tend to do that.

I’d love to try the enitre outside CCW. Probably would have to scrub off just a smiggen of speed going into Curve Grande. Then full on down the back straight into Sunset Sweep which should be faster (less braking) than front straight into Paddock.

Maybe next day we could dedicate the last 1/2 hour to a different track layout. Plus the sun will be to our backs running that configuration. The only downside is that it would probably turn it into a 25 sec course and only could run 5 cars max at a time.

DOT. There must be more than 2 pics of the AMG

I have about 200 pics that my brother took on my computer now. Most are decent, but mainly of the front straight area. Ill probably put them on flickr or something and post the link on here. It’s gonna take a while to sort through and upload them though, we also went to Niagara Falls, so I won’t post those, so whenever I have free time and am bored I’ll do it.

This was supposed to be a picture of the 350Z. I think the car is too fast for film.

JayS: I’d love to track with you for a couple laps after your brake upgrades. Except for your necessary early braking I thought you were driving quite well (for whatever it’s worth.) That is a heavy car.

a lot of people i seen were breaking way to early. early braking heats up rotors a lot more than hard breaking at the last minute. Thats a huge reason why i wasnt getting much past 1/2 throttle down the straits. just trying to conserve my rotors. but still keeping as much speed in the turns as possible.

IM not sure if HPS pads are that good for the track.
they are more directed to fast street/autoxuse arent they?

Honestly, I think his need to be rebled, after driving the car. That with some proper brake ducting will make a large difference.

Do you have anything to back that statement up, because everything I know about physics says otherwise.

Brakes work by turning the energy of the car’s momentum into heat. In the same way that it takes a lot more energy to accelerate your car from 0-100 in 10 seconds than it does to accelerate it from 0-100 in 20 seconds, the same applies for deceleration. Newton’s Second Law, force = mass X acceleration etc etc.

I can back this up with my personal experience. When I was braking late, and standing on the brakes enough to get the ABS to engage, they quickly overheated. My speed through the turns was the same, as was my top speed, but the amount of heat being generated was a lot higher on the harder stops.

It makes sense when you think about it. You can drive around town all day lightly using you brakes, and even in a slow sedan with terrible brakes you’ll never overheat them. Drive the same speed but wait till the last second to jam on the brakes at every light and they’ll quickly overheat. This is why the brake pads on my mom’s car last for years and years, but I go through brakes in a matter of months.

im not trying to start anything.

Im just going on what a few driving instructors have told me in the past.
because i was guilty of “riding the brakes” into the corner.

I always thought the longer you apply friction between two objects the more heat it generates.

taken from the first racing brakeing website i found.

" * There’s no coasting in racing! You should always be on the throttle or on the brakes. And you should be on the brakes as little as possible.
* Keep it smooth. Braking smoothly keeps the car settled. Slamming on the brakes unsettles the car, risks lock-up, and is less effective.
[SIZE=“3”]* Brake as hard as you can, and as late as you can, without locking up your brakes.
* Maximum braking occurs just before the tires lock up: there’s a fine line between great braking technique and wheel lock-up.
* When you’re braking, tire noise is a good thing; it means you’re using the brakes at their limit. Tire smoke, on the other hand, is a bad thing; it means you’re locking up your tires.

No Coasting!

Telemetry data shows that most professional racers spend less than 10 percent of each lap braking. The other 90 percent is spent on the throttle. In other words, there's no coasting in racing! <b>If your foot is not pressed firmly on the gas pedal, it should be planted solidly on the brake pedal.</b> The only exception is the more advanced technique of trail-braking, discussed below. 

Threshold Braking

Threshold braking is the technique of using your brakes to their full potential without locking up your wheels (in other words, braking to the "threshold" of locking up). Also known as straight-line braking, it is one of the fundamental skills you need to develop as a competent race car driver.

Keep in mind that “using your brakes to their full potential” does not mean stomping the brake pedal to the floor. This crude approach usually results in lock-up, flat-spotted tires, and a slide-none of which is desirable in a racing situation.

When braking in a straight line, successful threshold braking requires that you press quickly, smoothly, and firmly on the brake pedal to initiate the braking process. Continue pressing until you feel your tires responding. You want to apply enough pressure to put the tires to work, stopping just short of locking them up. Developing a sensitivity to the car's response to your control takes time and practice, and is a crucial first step.

Once you feel your tires responding to your braking input, hold steady on the brakes as the weight of your vehicle transfers to the front of the car. This weight transfer increases the size of the contact patches of the front tires, which translates into increased traction.

As the weight of your car transfers to the front tires, you can apply more brake pressure with less risk of locking them up. At this point, you need to focus on progressively applying more brake pressure until your tires are alternating between slipping and gripping, but not quite locking up.

Remember: Maximum braking occurs just before lock-up, and you will find yourself locking up often as you hone your technique. Your goal is to achieve lock-up for mere fractions of a second before rotating again. Slip, Grip, Slip, Grip, Slip. Keep in mind that no one said this would be easy!

Tire noise is an excellent gauge of the effectiveness of your threshold braking technique; it's a good indication that your tires are slipping under braking, which is what you're aiming for. On the other hand, tire smoke and a herky-jerky ride down the straightaway (because of flat-spotted tires) are clear indications that you need to practice your technique.

As you slip and grip your way through the final stages of braking, you need to focus on modulating your brake pressure. You will find that you need to apply less braking input as you slow down. Resist the urge to keep slamming down on the brakes! A gentle touch will achieve much more desirable results. 

Trail-Braking

Trail-braking is an advanced technique that involves braking and turning into a corner simultaneously. Once you've mastered the art of threshold braking, you may want to try trail-braking.

Trail-braking requires a light touch: You risk locking up the front tires if you press on the brakes too hard, and you also risk slowing down more than you need to as you enter the turn.

One of the most common mistakes rookies make while attempting trail-braking is trailing on the brakes too far into the corner, which means that you are slowing down more than necessary. Remember, you want to be off the brakes as much as possible!

Lingering on the brakes as you steer into a corner can also induce oversteer, which can come in handy if you're heading into a hairpin or other type of decreasing radius corner. With the majority of the car's weight and grip centered on the front tires as you linger on the brakes, the rear of the car may have a tendency to "go loose" and actually help rotate the vehicle into the perfect position for completing the cornering sequence. Just be careful not to linger too long on the brakes, as you may induce too much oversteer and find yourself in a spin.</i>[/SIZE]"

We all know it takes the same amount of force to stop a moving object when its moving.

but if that force is applied strongly within a short amount of time it should generate lest heat from friction than using the same amount of force spread out for a longer duration of time.

im not a physics major, nor an engineer. someone help me out, correct me if im wrong.

Yes, heat is what helps to stop the car. Modern brakes work more by chemical adhesion than they did in the past. But once you reach the temperature limit of the brake pad material, no amount of pedal force will stop the car. All you are doing at that point is burning off pad material. This is why thicker pads, higher boiling point fluid, and proper air flow to the rotors/pads helps to extend the life of the brakes as well as maintain maximum braking potential for a longer period of time. Heat management is the key. Ever coast down a long hill, constantly applying the brakes and not allowing them to cool, then try and stop the car quickly at the bottom? How well did they work?

who gives a fuck about brakes?!!

POST SOME PICS!!!