the market in 2006

SON240sx Automotive
1

i’ve been searching far and wide and i am getting the impression that this year we are going to see alot of new ‘brands’ coming into the scene.

i say this hesitantly because iono if it is good or not.

alot of guys are buying in overseas and branding generic gear or varying quality (some is good some is bad) and starting up companies to take advantage of the new market.

i am seeing at least 5-6 new brands of coilovers coming out right now…

in fact you can find a bunch of them on ebay, which just by their entrance strategy you can bet they wont even last as long as D2.

then there are other companies finding primary distributors and marketing the product as premium even though it is pretty much the same as what the original manufacturer already sells under other brand names.

in the end…

how is everyone going to choose what brand of gear to run?

are people going to be leary about all of these new brands… i am… because you dont just start a company and sell product, that is tell-tale of fly-by-nighters in for the growth stage and out for the mature stage.

who or what influences your dollar?

have you already decided what you are going to get and are saving for it or are you waiting to see what people like myself, Varun, or phil or john get our hands on this year?

because you kow its going to happen…

2 years ago it was D2, last year it was Megan… not that megan is gone, but you can bet there will be a coilover of 2006, as well as other products… heck, my own multi-link should come on strong this year with automotion and alot of other high profile guys lined up to wear it.

anyways… discuss…

2

I think there are some things that are ok to cheapen out on , like subframe spacers/collars, shifter, strut bars, etc.

I have most of those things now. For the parts that play a larger role in your car should be quality stuff. I am going to be saving for that kinda stuff now. ie: seat, diff, engine mods, aero, wheels and such.

The key is research. Alot of people don’t do research, they just look at the price on EBay and make a purchase.

Research is key, spend your money wisely.

Maybe a different avenue than what you wanted to take Bing, but that is my contribution.

3

I can’t wait to see the new multi-link.

I think Megan’s are going to be big again this year because now we’re going to start seeing them used. The MSRP will also be dropped due to competition and we’ll likely see another manuf. or 2 branding those same coils as their own for cheaper.

Especially here on SON I think we’ll continue to see the cheap products getting whored. I still haven’t been able to put my finger on it - but people here just don’t like to spend money. And I say that as a stereotype - there are always exceptions.

But regardless of that - I haven’t been keeping up to speed really on many new brands which are upcoming. All I know is that I hope we continue to see new high-quality products. If coilovers, exhausts, strut tower bars, short shifters, etc. keep getting cheaper - corners will be cut and in the case of the suspension it may start to get dangerous.

I’ve already seen many disclaimers on the low-end gear stating things like “CAUTION: FOR TRACK-USE ONLY” - A tagline like that on an exhaust is fine - maybe it’s not street/smog legal, etc. Even on a strut tower bar it’s fine “omg my STB broke, whatever shall I do… my car still drivers perfectly… THE HORROR!”. But, on coilovers, rucas, t/c rods, bushings, etc. It’s just scary because we all know since this stuff is cheap people are going to be sporting it on the streets and we’ve all seen it happen - cheap stuff breaks unexpectedly.

Anyway, definitely a good topic to discuss unfortunately I don’t have much to contribute other than a pointless midnight rant!

Let’s Discuss!

4

well i have seen companys coming called CST / Stance / Tarmac / drift gear

all kinds of shops in the US are finding contacts overseas and trying their luck this year.

some of them are going to be prett decent, others are not.

i didnt want to turn this into a knock-off thread but knock-off is a blanket term that covers too many items.

one thing that is for sure lacking is passion and pride in the products.

i said it in another thread that most parts are extremely easy to make and it seems that coilovers is just another one of the items that you can now buy in and have your name stuck on them.

ultimately i think it will drive prices down which i guess is a good thing.

5

A price drop has to come from somewhere, and its usually at the expense of quality which is VERY scary because I feel that alot of tuner cars on the road now are unsafe because of the parts they choose to use. So I hope these lowering pricing don’t force other manufactures to used cheaper parts in order to stay competative.

6

Manufacturing costs decrease for various reasons, efficiency, technology, cheaper labor, etc.

I think that the more competition between manufacturers is always a good thing. It forces prices down, while the products need to continually improve in order to remain competitive.

It’s funny that coilovers came up because I will be marketing some new coilovers sometime in the next few months and I have also heard of a lot of new brands coming out which are all based around the same design as an existing product.

The thing is, a lot of these companies (not all) will take an existing product that is successful, and try to improve it while marketing it at a lower price to gain their market share upon entry into a new market section.

If a company provides the same product as one that already exists with inferior build quality, then that company will not last more than one season guaranteed.

As for SON being cheap, I don’t think it’s necessarily SON that’s cheap, but the 240 community in general that doesn’t like to spend big bucks on aftermarket parts.

Lets face it, I guess when you buy your car for around $2000, I guess you don’t wanna spend over $10,000 modding a car that won’t be worth half of that when you sell it.

7

I dont exactly believe that SON itself is cheap or that the 240 community in general is cheap but rather some Individuals are cheap.

Like… why spend $600 on a Greddy Manifold when you can get a knock off “which pretty much is exactly the same” for less then half the money… its not being cheap, its being smart “why pay double the money for something thats going to work just as good for half as much”

In my opinion… the rich do not stay rich by spending all their money, so every dollar they can save just means they have a dollar left over for tomorrow. But if you dont mind spending every penny you have on the “real deal” then go for it…

8

because maybe it won’t even work half as good, let alone just as good

9

because maybe it won’t even work half as good, let alone just as good[/quote]

okay… example - http://www.sr20tuning.com/manifold.html

this dude bought a $200 manifold “like the bings.ca piece” and then dyno’d and showed an improvement of 7.5 rwkw

seems likes its working pretty good to me and no where near not working…

I will admit that in some cases the knock out may not work and be no good… but in MOST cases, the knock off is just as good

10

D2’s are shit, only reason they did well is because they were cheap and did the job. Damping is crap and springs are shit from what Jesse and the like tell me.

Megans, I haven’t seen enough guys that drive there cars use them. Kendrick runs them perhaps he can reflect. Damping is supposidly quite decent. Adam Hutchinson tryed these out on the track for a few laps. No comparison to his RA’s but he said they were decent.

Section/Silks, Maurice runs them, I haven’t had any feedback from him but the dampers are beefy as hell and they are inverted design. To spec they look like better than anything above. This means shit all though, Maurice tell us how they are.

My choice on coils will be from talking to people running the various companies and what my driving style is going to be like for the year. If you just want to slam your car buy garbage coils, if you actually drive your car research all the alternatives, talk to people etc. Major fact of the issue is always budget :x

On another note, if you buy coils that can be rebuilt, serviced etc and are from a reputable company such as Tein, Jic etc. You may spend 2000-3000 but they will last you a long time and when the dampers go you simply have them serviced.

Further, Bing I have to agree with you on these new up-coming coils.

Andrew.

11

Very very very rarely will a cheap product payout in the long run better than a higher end product.

SOMETIMES you’ll get lucky. Like so far with my D2’s i’ve had no problems, but a lot of guys have. Mostly people who drove them when it was cold out. Obviously the D2 shocks cant take the cold weather.

I will continue to support the innovators of the industry, and only buy cheaper products when it is absolutly neccessary (i.e. the innovators charge way way way too much like an 800usd oil cooler for example)

12

I’ll agree with Sasha on this one. You can either spend $500 bucks once or $200 3 times because the part keeps breaking.

13

why even bother with giving them ’ brand names’ , it’s pretty obvious how it breaks down; what most people here will buy ‘Made in China.’ And what very few will buy ’ made in Japan/Aus/us’

The odd well used JDM setup may make ito someone hands but most new kits will be right out China, logos, colours… whatever may change, it’s all the smae low end POS product that gives the owner a very false sense of security that ’ the product they have is every bit as good as the a similar ‘looking’ japanese kit… wrong!

From the fasteners on up, sub par materials, Don’t say you weren’t warned, don’t bother whinning about later.

14

It’s time for the aftermarket to pick up the ball. The tuning scene in Japan is dead now.

Unless you guys wanna sell the 240 for a Honda Odyssey.

Since the domestic tuning market (over there) is dead, most of the major tuning companies are turning to their US companies.

Like HKS and HKS USA … same parent, different strategies.

APEXi won’t be around much longer either … at the T.A.S, their booth was smaller than a hot-dog cart, with an SAFCII and a very bored-looking girl.

So most of the “aftermarket” stuff you’re looking at buying, whether it be the high dollar or low dollar will be made in China or the like.

There’s no sense for HKS to spend millions to develop and manufacture something in Japan that they aren’t even going to sell domestically.

This is why we’re seeing the big push for the North American market, like D1 drivers leaving to drive Formula D.

That would be like Vince Carter deciding to go and play NCAA, or even high school hoops.

Why? Because it’s not making any money over there. Before the scene expires on a whole, they have to get their foot in the door in North America.

Don’t forget that essentially the major sponsor of D1 built its empire selling WWE wrestling video games. They’ve seen how much money NASCAR makes, and how much money Wrestling makes.

And that’s where the demographic in North America is for Drifting. Deep south, beer-drinkin NASCAR and wrestling fans that like to see “Them funny lookin’ asian critters spinning around”

Say what you will about drifting, but its popularity is the sole reason anyone is making parts for RWD Japanese cars like the 240.

With the market drying up in Japan, the R&D is also going to go. These new companies will have to either keep ripping off other products, or invest heavily in their own R&D. A lot of these companies may be doing well right now, but it will be very hard to convince them to retool and actually have to spend their profits on designing better products.

As for Megan Racing, talk to Enjuku when they’re off the record. Money talks. And broke teams can’t be choosy.

15

^^^

good call…

if i had more money i’d be making some fantastic shit up here. the plans are stewing just got too much else on the go.

i personally think that the big companies in the next decade, not just in the automotive industry, will be the ones that find a way to produce domestically and still compete with china.

it can be done.

16

because maybe it won’t even work half as good, let alone just as good[/quote]

okay… example - http://www.sr20tuning.com/manifold.html

this dude bought a $200 manifold “like the bings.ca piece” and then dyno’d and showed an improvement of 7.5 rwkw

seems likes its working pretty good to me and no where near not working…

I will admit that in some cases the knock out may not work and be no good… but in MOST cases, the knock off is just as good[/quote]

Jedi you can’t compare only numbers. What about durability, materials used, life span of the product, etc…

It’s like the diff between a high-end $800 exhaust manifold and a $150 megan racing one… regardless of the numbers on either - there is blatent difference in the materials and workmanship behind the product.

I’ve got an S14 megan racing exhaust manfold sitting at my place right now - I guarantee if I dropped it on to my garage floor from standing it would have a nice dent in it.

If you take a full-race manifold like dan’s and drop it from standing, jump on it and then throw it at a brick wall - it’l probably be in perfect condition still minus a few scratches.

Number wise? Who knows maybe the MR will have a better flow and put down higher numbers! Probably not, but I’d bet there is some garbage manifolds out there that flow just as good as the big boys and put down the same numbers.

17

^^^ Right on.

Most knockoffs will show an increase over the stock unit, but compared to a Brand name product, most times the brand name product will show a bigger increase.

Not to mention durability, resale value, warranty and a bunch of other reasons.

18

^^ excellent point – i completely left out warranty which in some cases can proove to be more valuable than anything else…

19

have you ever tried to warranty a greddy product?

they’re not nice people

you really have to take it on a case by case basis.

exhuast manifolds are much different than intake manifolds even.

i use a knock off exhuast manifold and i havent had any problems, but of course i know many people have.

i will also be using a knock off intake manifold because i have read that they are identical to the greddy unit and are at most, half the price.

with regards to warranty, i have a very easy time warrantying my unbranded stuff.

i would say that warranty is relationship based. if your suppliers or whomever you buy the gear from doesnt like you or if you arent a major customer than you will get treated poorly. where as if you are a major cusotmer and have a great relationship then you will have a much easier time.

warranty policies afterall are set at teh descretion of the seller / manufacturer so they will inherently vary.

part of thr trick is finding out what parts you like and what sellers you like and sticking with them.

it isnt just warranties that are relationship based.

further to that, i would not suggest buying ALL your stuff from one person, even if its me.

20

Normally I just lurk, but here’s my 2cents:

I think there are two types of suppliers, those developing for the ‘racing’ market, and those for the ‘tuner’ market. Two totally different animals these days. Depending on each individual’s application, their preference will differ.

Then again, the saying goes:
“You can afford to race your car if you can afford to push it off a cliff.”

Personally, I would drop my dollars on product that has good documentation. If there are no material specs, I assume its made of junk. If there are no performance specs I assume it hasn’t been tested.