the market in 2006

SON240sx Automotive
41

i wasnt trying to defend imported products…

what i am saying is that people over estimate the costs involved.

toyota and Honda do millions of dollars in testing because they are HUGE companies and bare HUGE liability.

if your URAS or UEO STYLE or KAZAMA or evne D2 suspension components, or whatever products of theirs you use, break on you there is virtually no warranty anyways.

beyond that there is no way to seek legal restitution from such small companies based in other parts of the world

as a result they dont have to do testing on the same level and they dont.

I’ll bet you that testing of new products can be based on testing of old products that will absolve companies in the case of a legal battle.

by that i mean that if some one files a lawsuit against TEIN for neglegence because one of their coilovers was defective causing injury that TEIN could fall on industry testing, ISO documentation or testing conducted on other models of their coilovers (perhaps even discontinued) to beat any sort of case.

as a result they would not have to do all the wonderful things that people assume that they do in the course of R&D. however i am just using TEIN as an example. i am sure their R&D is far more extensive to most comapnies considering the size and scope of their operation.

the point of this thread was to discuss the companies that are attaching their names to generic gear and launching companies right as the scene gets big.

or in other words; reaches the maturity stage of the product life cycle

the discussion was meant to find out how people make their decisions and if they trust these newer companies.

i can assure you that some of the companies coming out with products this year (Stance, Tarmac, etc. etc.) are NOT doing the testing that Tein would have to do and i say this because these new companies are NOT making the products.

as mentioned i work for a private label food processing firm and we produce goods for the biggest names in the grocery industry.

if there is a problem and someone gets sick eating our products the liability ultimately comes back to us, not Maple Lodge or Presidents Choice. They stand to lose as far as reputation and credibility, but we are the manufacturer and our HACCP program would come under scrutiny.

because most of the companies today DO NOT MAKE their own gear you dont have that kind of legal recourse to attack them based on lack of testing or product quality because they dont make the products.

fukk, ranting…

that is one of the primary reasons for outsouring the manufacturing of goods like these.

you remove the requirement for a producitn workforce and all thehardships that go with it and you also absolve yourself from a great deal of liability.

the motivation to do all the testing is gone

42

******edited for not adding content to the forums

-bing

43

If anyone wants some pictures of the A’PEXi booth from TAS, I can get them. Although there is a rumor about what was really going on. I’d sooner believe one over the other.

What I said about the industry in Japan was not my opinion, but an opinion voiced to me by the tuning community in Japan. People I talk to every day. And it’s something I hear over and over again.

Hell, if you want Autometer gauges or a NASCAR sticker, or even USDM plates, sure, business is booming.

This is not to say the privateer market is hurting. It is as strong as it has ever been. But the core won’t drive enough business to maintain “market maturity”

That’s why there’s a huge decline. Japanese companies will follow the trend, whether or not it is reflected in the US. The early profiteering of places that tried to get a stranglehold on JDM parts (and charge 3 times what they cost) really hurt the market, and did a lot to help the counterfeit/copy industry. Selling busted-ass $5 motorsets for $5,000, then quickly selling another $4,000 worth of bolt on junk didn’t help anyone.

Instead of fostering a huge distrust in the minds of consumers, too many people were swayed by a sort of flawed logic of you must pay top dollar for the best stuff. It’s true that often you do “get what you paid for” but if you buy overpriced crap, you still bought overpriced crap.

Paying thousands for an exhaust because it is “name brand”, you are getting what you paid for. That expression is retarded. Unless you DON’T get the part, you still get “what you paid for”. Paying $300 to have a free-flowing exhaust built, you’re still … gasp getting what you paid for.

Look harder at the market. Too many people are still trapped in the “I own a car that there are many really good tuned examples of. My demands will equal if not exceed the demands placed on the car.”

Then they daily drive the car.

Then look closer at what the big money makers out there in the import world have been. Who made more money, HKS or Toucan? Are there more cars out there rocking N1 exhausts than Tire-Flys or light up washer nozzles?

People are like crows. Don’t forget the “shiny tax”. While to some of us, a turbo manifold that works great, flows great, but looks like ass is perfect, way too many people will pass it up because it doesn’t look good. A huge percentage of people just don’t care about anything except for status. They are more concerned what other people will think when they open thier hood. Knock offs are poisonous.

So you end up with a guy $60,000 deep, who for all intents would be just as well equipped for half that, if not less. All so he can own a car that goes “psssht”, sits low and he can hard park it every second week at a Timmy’s.

And arguing over 7.5 hp is pointless. The average deviation in a dyno run for temperature/humidity change is closer to 10. 10 whp is the accepted mark where the butt dyno will register - ie when a driver will actually be able to notice a difference. But people can sell a product, and lots of them, on claims even lower than that.

Look at the birth of the “sport” that is causing this popularity in RWD cars. Look to their roots. Look at any of your favorite D1 drivers, look where they started. In $50 pieces of crap with cut springs.

I’m getting a bit off topic.

We’re trying to see where the market will go. Let’s look at the facts. Japanese parent companies are tailoring back production and R&D. The boom is over for them, and to stay in business, they need to go where the money is domestically.

The hot ticket in Japan is minivans. The other hot ticket is what is being referred to as Spo-Com. Ironically enough, this is the Japanese interpretation of what we call “rice”. And it’s too cool for school. Our guys are being mobbed in Japan for NASCAR stickers, Autometer gauges, US plates, etc etc.

These aren’t trends that are going to translate into a trickle-down for the US market.

So the ball is in the corner of North American companies to see this market to maturity. That’s all I’m trying to say.

44

wow, good job, you pretty much proved my point about north americans and the Walmart/Target mentality… thanks.

You may want to get your ’ tunning community’ people in Japan to wake up and get off the crack. D1, Super Taiaku, Time attack have never been more popular over there, tunning shops have steady business and innovation and development are still going strong… All of which do NOT point to a 'dying ’ market.

45

^^^

The times I wish I could name drop …

This isn’t even MY opinion, but what has been repeated to me time and time again by companies/drivers/owners/shops in Japan, both big and small.

Everyone that has come back here from the TAS, that had been there last year, and a few years before, have told me the same thing. The only thing worth mentioning this year were the color-shift rims. Apparently you can now get your TE37s in the same flame-tip finish as your titanium exhaust.

Minivans and minicars. Hell, even Brabus is tuning Smart Cars. Not JDM, but a definite sign of the times.

Super Taikyu and SuperGT … hardly impacts the street market here. As much as I’m sure we’d like to see it. I don’t know too many people hurting in the NSX, 350Z, Supra and McLaren camps for aftermarket support. Time attack, well, at least the US has the EVOVIII. But look at the other champions. The closest thing I can think of is the Swift Springs S15 … And if it wasn’t for coverage in magazines like Modified, there would only be a handful of people in North America that knew the JGTC, or that they’d changed their name.

Even the GT300 cars are outside of the “market” we’re talking about.

That handful of people is hardly representative of a demographic that will make HKS, JIC, TEIN, GReddy/TRUST the kind of money that selling their turbo kits to every kid with a credit card will.

They had their fun, and now they’ve cut ties to their American counterparts.

The dying market we’re talking about would be the RWD Nissan/import market. Which has dried up.

Cars are as intrinsic a market in Japan as here or Detroit. It will never die in Japan. But we’re cashing in on a trend that’s 15 years old already. It had to change sometime.

Pop culture drives the tuning scene there just as hard as it does here. And say what you will, the “baller” thing to do is have a minivan. You sit at the local hang out pumping tunes out of your pimped out minvan and dance like an idiot behind it. THAT’s cool.

The hardcore is a niche market again. It had its time in the spotlight, but its over now. There will be very little new product released (in fact most of what I’ve seen so far for '06 has been repackaged press releases from as far back as '04) from Japan. You might see a redesigned BOV, or some other universal product, but forget anything model specific.

Brand new $12,000 carbon splitters for GT500 350Zs might be pretty baller, but I don’t think Bings.ca will be selling out of them anytime soon :wink:

American companies like AEM/DC Sports are picking up the ball rolling, but their stuff is spendy. Holley and Edelbrock have pretty much stayed out of it (between the two of them, they own probably 96% of American aftermarket companies)

And yes, this ties in to the Walmart concept.

Shit is expensive in Japan. Not just car stuff, everything. The cost of living is insane. So by comparison, car stuff IS cheap.

There needs to be one giant parts company that steps up in the US to see this through. It will suck, but the aftermarket needs to reach maturity before it solidifies.

The problem is support is dwindling both from consumers and manufacturers too quickly. No one is willing to invest in a receding nascient market.

If some kid on your block is selling lemonade and doing so well that every afternoon your neighborhood is full of kids, beating each other to death with action figures trying to get his lemonade.

He offers you a chance to give him $1000 to share 50% in his profits. As you go to talk to him, you see a few dirty kids, obviously addicted to lemonade, but other than that, the crush of screaming money waving children is gone.

Do you still want 50% of his profits?

Odd analogy I know, but the fact is the “market” peaked last year. It has been receding ever since. It never cemented, and now people are left trying to scotch tape the pieces in place long enough to just get out.

Haven’t you noticed it’s already cool to diss drifting?

Remember when it was first cool to piss on Hondas?

But a lot of them still drove Hondas, because they were “purists” (I think that means … more than $20,000 deep into a car).

The eventually they sold their Hondas and bought 240s?

46

i heard the same comments from the guys who run some of the largest and most well known shops in the US, Enjuku for one.

many of the larger companies, Greddy as an example, are treating the market as though it has already peaked and are looking to the next big things.

47

well I guess that’s the differece between my client base and yours… my clients are very interested in new parts and tech from Japan, I have a container full of parts from the high end in Japan coming, just for these very customers… my customers are obviously different then yours, what you see is a different spectrum them me for the most part. From MY POV the market is not dead, it’s growing. The US market place is full of crap and 1/2 assed parts. thier are very few companies that are worth going to for parts in any market and most of those ave specialty shops dealing with one or two makes/models of cars… Pettit racing, Stillen to name some off the top of my head.

Apexi and Greddy are the ‘department store’ makers of the tuning world, they flood the market with product , take on dealers ever 2nd street corner then cry when they start to loose some bottom line… duh!, over saturation.

48

you still have a clientelle?

low blow…lol

i really doubt that this is a clientelle issue anyways, as mentioned what i commented in my previous post was what i had been told from Enjuku.

Furthermore, you’re not the first to mis-judge my clientelle.

just because half the stuff on my site is unbranded doesnt mean i deal with cheapskates all day. I am sure i have sold more Garrett GT-series turbos in the past 2 months than any other person in the country with lots more lined up.

be that as it may, both you and i are not seeing a decline in operations but in general that is the concensus in the bigger US markets.

the following is a quote taken from organizers of the largest import car shows in the US (SEMA, Carlisle, HIN etc.)

this comment is specifically in regards to the format of the biggest show on the east coast in Carlisle, may 5-7th. i’ll be heading down with all the NYspeed characters

“Sport Compact Sceen is Dead / Almost Dead”

The trend is moving away from sport compacts and this is in fact, a completely new show. Will there still be sport compacts at the show? Absolutely. That is still a portion of this evolving segment. Our goal is to bring you a fantastic new show and leave the problems of the past in the past.

Hello. Here is the “why” you are all looking for. In 2002, SEMA was full of Sport Compact cars. In 2003 the market hit a peak, we had almost 3,400 show vehicles on the grounds and you all know the out come. In 2005, SEMA had very few sport compacts and was full of SUV’s, High-end vehicles and some of the most popular cars were the Chrysler 300, the Magnum & the Charger. This is where the market is headed. YES, there will always be a sport compact side to the scene, but that scene is on the decline out west and just like the weather…auto trends start west and head east. Even the guys at HIN are seeing this; did any of you hear about the show called VIP Auto Fashions? It was hosted December 3 in Cali by Vision Entertainment - aka the HIN guys. They saw what is coming and they produced a show just for these high-end rides. And I talked to them and they plan to bring that VIP show to tour if they feel the east coast markets can support it.

please note i wasnt suggesting that it is teh same persons organizing the shows i mentioned, i was simply stating them for comparisons sake

49

promoting crap, selling crap, consumer base accepting crap as the std. not the exception to the rule and showing/ rewarding crap in shows and magazines… year after year can kill any segment… hotrods have been around for decades simply because people, decades ago started spending $50K and up on them.

The market is alwasy evolving but is it dead in Japan, hardly. in the next few years the new NSX, rx7 and as it looks to be, a new Silva and GTR platform will be out on the market. All I’ve seen is growth and evolution in the products out of Japan and the other specialty shops in the US. Away from the junk that saturates the market in just about every shop in Ontario. It is customer and reseller driven, if your willing to sacrifice quality to get a few extra clinets in the door buying then that’s your call. US popular culture rap starts and pro sports players do not influence my build and design direction. But I guess that’s the key difference right there, I design and build, not source and resell.

you still have a clientelle?

I’ll make sure to remind you of that comment if I ever meet you in person…

50

hahaha I’m sure bings is shaking in his boots

3-4 years ago the only market was a lot of quality and a lot of over priced parts from japan/australia. People saw there was a demand for lower cost items, and that they could easily be made. Only prob is they went too cheap and a lot of people are thinking twice about buying bootleg shit.

The market as I see it now?? People want middle end products. They would rather spend extra money for stuff that’s built in the US/Canada or better quality from Thialand, that isn’t going to fall apart on them, but don’t see the need to spend that top dollar on stuff like Full Race.

51

really eh?

i do see people going a bit more upmarket on select items and downmarket on others.

stay up market on BOV’s, turbos and manifolds, down or mid-market on coilovers, subframe collars, cooling panels, accessory type stuff.

52

making some bings brand cooling panels?

53

i have one left still.

54

hmmm sounds like i should dump my silvia and pick up a 300C SRT-8 and follow the trends. :slight_smile: