This I was curious why people were getting so hyped if you read the actual indictment :tif:
Podesta Group is ācompany Bā in the indictment:
Tony Podesta, who founded the left-leaning Podesta Group in 1988, stepped down from his position with the firm on Monday morning, an employee told NBC News.
NBC News reported last week that Podesta and the Podesta group had become a subject of Muellerās probe into ties between the Trump presidential campaign and Russia.
Tony Podesta is the brother of Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, who is not under investigation.
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Whatās going on with the federal reserve now?
The George P stuff is worse than the Manafort charges. The fact that George P plead guilty and that it was noted that he was cooperating fully leads you to believe that he is providing more information to the FBI than just his specific case. Basically makes it look like theyāll let him off easy if he rats out others. So, weāll see what more comes of it.
At the end of the day, even if they donāt charge Trump himself, at what point does pressure mount for him to step down? Who all will be implicated? How close does it get to Trump? If Senior officials around Trump get indicted for campaign-related charges, you have to be able to see that Trump is responsible, by virtue of being the leader. Same deal as how CEOs come under fire for anything that happens within their company, even at lower levels. Just because youāre not directly involved, doesnāt mean that itās not your responsibility.
- Youāre downplaying it.
- Youāre putting words in my mouth. I read the indictment. How about you read my posts and show me where I tied Trump himself into this? I only mentioned him because of all the constant drama surrounding him and the company he keeps. Hard not to think he has stayed clean with so much going on around him, but Iām not making claims. The Mueller investigation will do that.
We disagree with the significance of this, which is okay, but hereās my perspective;
Manafort was a significant part of the campaign and so was Gates. Gates is also a long time business partner of Trumpās. The confession and guilty plea from Papadopoulos shows that Junior is a lying sack of shit and the meetings being set up were not ānothingburgersā. (Which we already knew.) All the while Trump is still crying that itās a witch hunt. Witch hunts donāt end up with indictments, and I sincerely doubt these will be the only ones that come from this.
Fixed??? 
Manafort was a significant part of the campaign and so was Gates. Gates is also a long time business partner of Trumpās.
Nah. Maifort wasnāt even part of the general election campaign. He was only there during the Republican convention. Maybe he got the Russianās to help him fight John Kasichās contested convention plans? You have a stronger point with Gates but his charges are the same.
Theyāve only charged (arguably overcharged) Manifort and Gates to squeeze them and see if they have dirt to dish on Trump for a plea deal. Time will tell.
The confession and guilty plea from Papadopoulos shows that Junior is a lying sack of shit and the meetings being set up were not ānothingburgersā. (Which we already knew)
Cool, and he might have been wearing a wire as a cooperating witness. But where does this get them? A 30 year old campaign volunteer whoās already plead guilty somehow has the dirt thatāll take down the president?
Letās go ahead and assume Jr. was colluding with Russians in that meeting: What did the Russians give him? What did Trump give in return?
This is the kicker. How exactly did Russia swing the election, more specifically Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, for Trump?
is the implication that doing illegal things only matters if they can be proven to help the outcome?
:picard: Okay, Hannity.
Nah. Maifort wasnāt even part of the general election campaign. He was only there during the Republican convention. Maybe he got the Russianās to help him fight John Kasichās contested convention plans? You have a stronger point with Gates but his charges are the same.
Theyāve only charged (arguably overcharged) Manifort and Gates to squeeze them and see if they have dirt to dish on Trump for a plea deal. Time will tell.
Thatās what Iām thinking as well.
Cool, and he might have been wearing a wire as a cooperating witness. But where does this get them? A 30 year old campaign volunteer whoās already plead guilty somehow has the dirt thatāll take down the president?
Letās go ahead and assume Jr. was colluding with Russians in that meeting: What did the Russians give him? What did Trump give in return?
That 30 year old campaign adviser sat in on some pretty high level meetings. Calling him an āunpaid internā is bullshit. Werenāt Manafort and Gates also āunpaidā?
This is the kicker. How exactly did Russia swing the election, more specifically Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, for Trump?
You keep going down these strange paths that no one else is bringing up.
There was more significant meaning to Juniorās meetings than what you care to admit. There is absolutely no question that Russia tried to sway the election in Trumpās favor. Were the actual vote counts changed? No, probably not but they certainly had a reason for wanting a Trump administration vs a Clinton one. See: āadoptions.ā
Nope, but if you want to impeach a president illegal things need to be proven. Whatās been proven illegal?
Attempted murder still gets you a one-way ticket to prison. Attempted treason/collusion would do the same. So far, no evidence or indictments have been presented that imply that, though. Just hearsay.
Iām curious to see where this all goes. More than likely, this is a case of āopposition researchā taken a step too far. Itās easy to get in over your head.
:lol:
lol, FYI I hate Sean Hannity so this is more of an insult that you know.
ā¦ Thatās what Iām thinking as well.
Cool. I think weāre on the same page here. Iām actually really for this investigation because it seems like Muller has played fair so far despite some on the far right shitting on him.
ā¦ That 30 year old campaign adviser sat in on some pretty high level meetings. Calling him an āunpaid internā is bullshit. Werenāt Manafort and Gates also āunpaidā?
He wasnāt an unpaid intern, he was a campaign volunteer advising on Greece. And if he was in āpretty high level meetingsā then maybe he does have the goods and weāll find out.
I have no idea how Gates & Manifort were paid, but that should be all public record because it was campaign money.
You keep going down these strange paths that no one else is bringing up.
There is absolutely no question that Russia tried to sway the election in Trumpās favor.
I just like asking the questions no one really wants to answer, or they answer with āRussia bought Facebook ads! Twitter bots!ā
The best answer, highest-impact thing Russia could have done (if indeed it was Russia and not an internal leak by a disgruntled Bernie Bro) was sending the DNC emails to Wikileaks. But did that really sway enough people into thinking Hillary was a crook that they didnāt vote for her?
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Collusion isnāt a crime. Attempted collusion certainly isnāt a crime. A good read with a verity of opinions: What Is Collusion? Is It Even a Crime? - POLITICO Magazine
āTreasonā is getting into Maxine Water crazy talk.
Maybe they wanted to cause on going distrust in the election process and our governmentā¦
Fair Enough. But that article clearly states the following:
If I can remain unaffected by @JayS comparing me to Rachel Maddow, youāll be fine. lol
Cool. I think weāre on the same page here. Iām actually really for this investigation because it seems like Muller has played fair so far despite some on the far right shitting on him.
He wasnāt an unpaid intern, he was a campaign volunteer advising on Greece. And if he was in āpretty high level meetingsā then maybe he does have the goods and weāll find out.
I have no idea how Gates & Manifort were paid, but that should be all public record because it was campaign money.
Weāre good. Thereās a lot of information we still need to learn. Like I said, Iām not making claims but the discussion helps understand whatās out there now. Considering how many things were denied and then later proven, itās fair to draw a few connections, no?
I just like asking the questions no one really wants to answer, or they answer with āRussia bought Facebook ads! Twitter bots!ā
The best answer, highest-impact thing Russia could have done (if indeed it was Russia and not an internal leak by a disgruntled Bernie Bro) was sending the DNC emails to Wikileaks. But did that really sway enough people into thinking Hillary was a crook that they didnāt vote for her?
I donāt think anyone here has a problem with answering that stuff. :gotme: The regular posters come for discussion. Letās keep that up and be respectful. :tup:
I think that Russiaās influence, to their credit, was in social media and the spread of false information. Itās genius, really. They didnāt have to change the vote counts when they could effect the culture enough to essentially divide the country. This isnāt in defense of any Hillary stuff, but for fuckās sake weāre STILL talking about the non-president? I donāt get how you think Trumpās connections should be pushed by the wayside because of Clinton stories. Heās the sitting president.
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:word:
I know this is the no memeās thread but this is just too perfect a responseā¦
I thought the Papadopoulos thing was going to be a lot bigger than it was reading the headlines yesterday but as more details come out today the guy doesnāt seem anywhere near as big a fish in the campaign as the headlines made it out to be. Weāll see though. Iām not going to downplay that this isnāt bad news for Trump but I still say you wonāt see anything come close to impeachable or even forced to step down. I could be wrong though. Hell, if you go far enough back in this thread I said Trump would never win the nomination. 
Well, when CNN is giving Hilary debate questions and the DNC is clearly trying to block Bernie I think distrust is warranted.
Which criminal prohibitions though? There has to be a specific crime that theyād charge for. Read a bit further and youāll start to see why this wet dream of impeachment is just that:
So legally itās not enough for an associate of the president to work together with a Russianāthe American would need to work with a Russian to commit a crime, to aid a Russian in committing a crime or to conceal a crime committed by a Russian.
Yeah, kinda. But I canāt assume why someone like Papadopoulos for example would lie about meetings. Itās just as likely that he was intimidated by being part of the investigation, tried to cover his own ass and thought he could get away with it because he was a small player. Next thing ya know heās getting charged and in an attempt to plea, he decides to wear a wire or finger someone else that they can investigate. They havenāt said what his original charges were before he plead guilty. I donāt just assume he lied to protect Trump out of some vague sense of loyalty.
I donāt think anyone here has a problem with answering that stuff. :gotme: The regular posters come for discussion. Letās keep that up and be respectful. :tup:
I think that Russiaās influence, to their credit, was in social media and the spread of false information. Itās genius, really. They didnāt have to change the vote counts when they could effect the culture enough to essentially divide the country. This isnāt in defense of any Hillary stuff, but for fuckās sake weāre STILL talking about the non-president? I donāt get how you think Trumpās connections should be pushed by the wayside because of Clinton stories. Heās the sitting president.
The culture (mostly political culture) was divided long before the Russians got involved. In my experience I really donāt think anything changed. There is always an uptick in shit during an election year so itās more noticeable to those who havenāt followed elections closely before. I can totally understand why a millennial with limited political exposure would see something new and dangerous happening in 2016, and afterwards jump to conclusions based on limited information. But to me itās a stretch to think any of it changed minds at the voting booth. Maybe a lot of people un-friended each other on Facebook over shitty posts or memes, but you could just as easily make the argument that the Russians ultimately succeeded in making more Americans aware of the political process and getting involved, and thatās a good thing.
I donāt think Trumpās connections should be pushed aside at all. But weāre still talking about Hillary because Hillary is still talking about Hillary, lol.
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ā¦ and then you hear that the Trump campaign was the one who gave Muller Papadopoulosās emails which proved he liedā¦
Agreed. However, he could be a pretty big player when it comes to the information he has or has given up. Iām not saying itās a direct line to Trump, but I definitely think these are the first of several more indictments.
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Let me clarify the significance; There was, and is currently, a sophisticated effort to spread misinformation to advance Trump through the nomination, general election, and now to push a divisive agenda. They are purposely dividing Americans and creating undue tension. That is not a good thing. Nor is it hearsay.
What specifically did Russia spread as misinformation though the nomination or general election that was meant to help Trump?
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Related:
Thousands of Americans attended a march last November organized by a Russian group that used social media to interfere in the 2016 election.
The demonstration in New York City, which took place a few days after the election, appears to be the largest and most successful known effort to date pulled off by Russian-linked groups intent on using social media platforms to influence American politics.
As many as 5,000 to 10,000 protesters actually convened at Manhattanās Union Square. They then marched to Trump Tower, according to media reports at the time.
The BlackMattersUS-organized rally took advantage of outrage among groups on the left following President Trumpās victory on Nov. 8 to galvanize support for its event.āJoin us in the streets! Stop Trump and his bigoted agenda!ā reads the Facebook event page for the rally.
A lot of the fake stories about Clinton/Democrats and their supporters, (i.e. actual fake news) but also fake positive news about Trump. By the time the truth made itās way around the fake stories were what stuck in peoples heads.
We talked earlier about the guy who owned the sites and did an interview with NPR about it. He literally hired people to create fiction and put it up masking it as real news. Those types of stories were pushed in front of people with the help of Russiaās involvement.
But Iām guessing you want me to list out specific stories with links because you want to get stuck in the weeds. Letās get to the point. Are you denying it happened? Or skeptical on the effect it had?