I see what you’re saying, and it’s not all that bad of an idea by any means, but why throw money at a project that he probably has little interest in when he could be putting it towards something he really wants. Another thing to consider is: You don’t have to build this thing into a 1000hp animal before you ever put it on the road either. A nicely put together H/C setup should give it the set of nuts you’re looking for in the meantime, so you don’t get bored with it.
:word: Your better of buying a new th350 or th400 if you want to go with an auto, its gonna cost you alot less than trying to rebuilding that 4l60e and it still wont be able to take the power that you want to throw at it.
I’m just saying craftsmanship comes with experience, you don’t want a n00b hack working on a $25k project car, and you can’t bypass the n00b-hack stage. No amount of planning and money can tell you how to deal with that thing that doesn’t fit quite right…
That being said, the_rusky have you thought about jamming a big block in there since you’re dealing with a big effing chassis anyways? If you’re going to make a world-beater why short yourself on displacement when you don’t have to? Plenty of guys have put 454’s and 502’s into G-body Monte Carlos. Why keep to a 350ci motor in a Caprice chassis? Why blow a small block when you can blow a big block?
cuz you can get comperable output blowing a small block, and dont need such big means of blowing… not to mention weight savings, and money saved on not having to buy that block…
I tossed around the idea of getting a 572 Crate motor with 800hp stock and putting it in there. but it adds so much MORE weight that im already trying to compensate for and i can get similar power out of 350 with mo boost.
Fortunately i realize my own deficiancies in that i wont be doing almost any of this project myself. The most complicated project i did on my buick was plugs wires and air filter, gotta start somewhere right?.
And i did the noob hack job with my first 2 cars becuase they were >$500 peices of crap and i had to try and fix them with duct tape. twine and sawzalls.
Almost all of the work would be done hand in hand with either a professional shop such as JNJ or with the assistance such as Chuck Turbo or any other gents that would lend a hand. I said this before and i will again. If someone would grant me the pleasure of being taken under their wing, i would greatly appreicate it. That knowledge would serve me well and make this all a lot easier since its not even going ot start until summer 07 when i hope i can buy the car.
And 95z28 H/C i assume you meant heads/cam. I wouldnt want to buy 2 sets, so i would think ahead enough to buy a set of heads that would be proper for the turbo later, the same with the cam. Dont want to waste money. I also dont want it off the road for years. I want to do a few things and drive it and then do a few more. repeat. Heads cam and at least mufflers would be first. Then trans, driveshaft, rear end. Internal engine mods. Turbo Kit. other stuff.
Sounds like you’ve got your head on straight. A rarity around here…
Makes sense. Despite the old adage, there really is a replacement for displacement eh?
Thank you.
In a lot of cases more displacement is better becuase it makes more power easier. but i my case i dont want to add any more weight than i have to. and a 572 is really heavy.
well yes and no. if with the added cubes you add a larger turbo or supercharger, you will get more gains. but theres a point were it just gets retarded and ur making well over 1000whp, power you cant use. not to mention, when you go with bigger displacement, everything costs more, and alota the time, it has to be custom. not only the engine parts, but a larger turbo, for example, can be 1000$ MORE than that of a turbo needed for the smaller displacement. then you get to the amount of cubage where its more ideal to go with twins…then your buying two of everything.
not to mention, if you were to do this build with an lsx based engine (for arguements sake), the heads and all around VE is soo much better than a typical 1st or 2nd gen chevy small block, same with chevy big blocks. cubes ALONE dont make horsepower… you need the air to actually make it to those cylinders…which is done with the topend of the motor… once you have a high VE platform, as you add cubage, the $$$ will raise exponentially…
there is no replacement for power-added displacement…
Turbo up a big 572, goobs of gooey delicious low end torque plus a turbo, umm mum good.
For arguments sake, do you think a LS1 swap would be more effective for this project.
a turbo 572 would never hook up. EVER!
and say goodbye to that gas milage, drivabilty, and sleeper(ness) you could have had with the small cubes :lol:
it would be cool tho
edit: you need a definitive goal first before that suggestion would be made. lt1s have good potential too
Big Fat NO to the 572.
i have staged goals. becaues the project will be done in stages like listed before.
exhaust, cam, heads (stock is 260 like to have 300 ish at the wheel)
tranny driveshaft, rear end ( no signifigant gains)
built internals, lower comp pistons, all bottom end shit (gains?)
Turbo kit for impala SS. (8-9 Psi. roughly 450-500 rwhp. with high boost making 7-800 or more.
Suspension stuff and tires to make it grip.
Edit: CCN wheels
problem number 1. these arent hondas and supras… high boost should be max of 20psi imo… and thats on a VERY properly built engine, lota money. we dont need alota boost to make power. i know ill never go that high. ANYWAYS, say your “high boost” is ~17psi, and thats where ur making 800whp… 8-9psi being your low boost, would be most likely over 600whp. again, this is on a properly built, high VE motor; which, if your going for big HP, you need to have anyway.
also, if your trying to save moeny or whatever, you shouldnt buy headers in an “earlier stage” if your gona be ditching them anyway. (assuming your going turbo) if you dont mind spending the money for that time being…go for it.
yes, you can build a FI motor, and run it NA, and it will make more power than stock. it wont make as much power as a built NA motor, but it will still be peppy. (varies with what you do). hell, i ran my 6L, 8.2CR with large heads for the CI naturally, and it was still pretty decent. and that was through stock exhaust manifolds, so it couldnt breath. it put a car on a bolt on SS the first night i had it running. if you opted to go for a stroker setup (anywhere from 383-408), ive seen them make over 430whp NA.
I know chuck runs 18 psi as his high boost, granted is procharged but that puts him at 690rwhp. I have scratched the idea of doing headers twice. maybe you misread, but i meant heads. The engine will be properly built. by a shop or someone who knows their stuff. VE??? something with valves. I assume good air flow.
The motor will be fully built and the turbo kit will be the last thing to be essentially bolted on.
lol…idk where ur getting these figures about chuck. hes not even close to 18psi, and never has been. and he hasnt been dyno’d since last year on last years setup
VE = volumetric efficiency. basically, how efficient the engine is, meaning, how well its ability to pump air. thats all an engine is, an air pump. you raise VE with cubes, and good flowing heads and a properly speced cam, intake, so on and so forth
transmission capable of holding that kinda torque and chassis weight is gonna cost around 3,500
Engine built by a shop to make that kinda Hp is gonna cost around 7-8 grand, prob more
Is that 18 psi of cold or hot air, and are the heads large port, cause at that psi level, with cold air and large port heads, thats enough air to make well over 1,000 hp.
I think what people are saying is that for someone that is limited in thier past experiance, and skill, your trying to bite off way too much without the financial backing that would allow you to bring in the proper skill and experiance.
I’ve dumped money into my current project that would make your head spin, and i’m doing the work to the car. Once you break over the 500 hp level, you need to be looking at the project as a race car, because anything less will just end in diaster. Pretty much everything will need to be changed, and you will break it all at least once. Things like a rear end can cost 3,500 very easily, and if your gonna have to pay someone to do the work to it, your looking at a few hundo more. Same for the trans, engine, turbo, tuning, and then repairs when it goes kaboom, and it will. thats what everyone is trying to say, cause many people try, and if you don’t think so, check racingjunk.com and check out all the half finished projects.
My car does almost 350rwhp…with 90k on it…and a 4000 stall it does just fine…and im always hot lapping and roll racing it.
buy a vette
/thread
after thinking abuot this a little i don’t think it ca be done for $25k. realistically you’ll looking at about $10,000-$15000 for the engine, your going to be looking at stuff like C&A rods, Callies cranks et al… not the cheaper eagle or the like forged stuff that won’t tolerate 1000 hp. high hp na race engine sell for around $25k. You going to need aftermarket heads that are worked over, custom intake and than at least anoehr $5000 for the power adder. your already at $15,000, assume you can get a decent car for $5,000, now at $20k, anothe $3500 for a trans and another $1500 for a converter, you wopn’t be using an off the shelf converter either. there’s $25,000 right there. Figure anoteher $2000 for some suspension stuff, anothe $1000 for a tune because this beast isn’t going to be tuned in a hour like a na bolt on car, than add about $2000 just for little stuff you forgot and another $2000 for shit your going to break or screw up while installing it. didnt’ even add in rims and tires yet or fuel system. I’d be very surprised if you cold build it for less than $40k. The fact that you can’t do a lot of this stuff yourself is going to push it through the roof. Not trying to sway you, but i think your goa is unreachable at this time.
ehh…you dont need absolute top of the line for everything. you just need the right combination of strong parts. i have Scat H-Beam rods, which are a budget rod, but strong enough to take the powa. ls1 stock cranks are good, and for LT1s, a nice eagle forged crank is not that much, i think like $400.
you dont need aftermarket heads, and then have those worked over. you can get cheaper stage x heads that flow pretty decent, and work well. I have off the shelf AFR heads. i got these cuz they flow very well, have a large runner, have a 3/4" thick deck so they dont lift, etc etc. theyre nice cuz i can keep the boost down and still make the power. theyre pretty expensive, but not THAT bad. but you dont NEED the best flowing heads to make power.
you can piece together a bottom end using sub $700 sets of parts. the part people dont take into account usually is the machine work and assembly. thats the money of the project. but names like eagle, callies, mahle, scat, etc that everyone thinks are “shitty” cuz they are less expensive, are actually well constructed pieces and can take a lot of abuse.