Car Info: 1995 VW GTi VR6
Problem: No Start just dead roll over
Background:
Well I made a trip all the way out to pgh last night only for my car to break down when i got out there. It started when i was driving down the road and the engine just shut off, no CEL or anything i pull it off the road and try to start it and all i get is a dead roll over. I look under the hood for anything out of the oridinary everything looks fine. So i check the fuses for underhood electronics, and fuel pump, both are fine. I try the car again and it fires up, I make it about 2 blocks and it dies again, this time no luck, the car will just dead roll and not even try to fire, i know it’s getting fuel, you can smell it, and it started backfired a couple times through the intake it sounded like.
At first i thought ECM relay, but if that were bad it wouldn’t get fuel, now all i can think is A. The timing chain some how jumped time and the engine is effed. B. The coil pack went bad. or C. It’s some kind of other ignition problem.
Also i noticed when the key is in the RUN position but while the car isn’t actually running, you can here a clicking (like a relay click) behind the dash and it will causes the warning lamps on the dash and the Tech to kind of flicker.
Based on what you have posted I would guess it’s not the timing chains if the car started and ran fine for two blocks. The clicking behind the dash and lights flickering leads me to believe you may have a bad ground somewhere.
If all it did was die on you and restarted and ran crappy or not at all I would guess it was the coilpack. Pull the coilpack off, check it for cracks, if you find any epoxy them up and try it out.
how many keys do u keep on your key ring, or what all is on your key ring? in addition, does the car have an alarm–oem or aftermarket? im being serious here.
also, car runs at idle, but goes 2 blocks and dies… almost sounds like you are starving it of fuel. at idle, enough fuel pressure to sustain operation. put a load on an engine, pressure starts dropping off until it cant run and shuts off. check the fuel pressure/pump output.
confirm the fuel pressure when it dies. if it just loses spark after 2 blocks, it should do it sitting at idle for x amount of time then, no? i cant see an elctrical problem being a time based problem.
another thought is check the sock on the pump…
hard to e-repair a car, as im sure there is shit being left out.
ok got the car home today, NL didn;t really have the time to look at it so i’m back to square one, did a compression check. 150-170psi across all cyl. I did notice when the key is in the ign. and turned to the on position you can hear just about everything in the motor clicking, like everything is trying to work but it dosen’t now when to work, so after talking with some people they said it sounded like and ignition switch, i ordered one should be here in a few days, any other ideas?
Check out your crank sensor. I honestly don’t know the exact location on a VR6, but on the 2.0 and 1.8t, they are by the oil filter, and read the flywheel/flexplate. When mine went, it gave no warning, no CEL, nothing, just no start. Cranked away, tons of fuel, just no spark, because the engine had no reference point. I hope it helps.
since you are already running–and this is not a no start issue rather a stalling issue–that tells me that power is coming out from the switch. if it were a no start issue all the time, then i’d look that way.
yet 2 things that are linked to the switch may be the actual problem. 1st is the oem alarm module. 2nd is the fuse block itself. i have had fuse blocks that once they warm up-- they lose continuity.
the biggest thing i see is your car is repeatable in that it fires up cold, and wont mess at idle even after being at operating temp. yet once warm and driven a few miles–it craps out. that would lead me to thinking something is dropping resistance, and either losing power or skewing readings.
no, now it’s not even starting, it’s basicly once you turn the key to the on position, everything in the engine bay is clicking and turning on, for instance, you can hear different relays cliking, then the fan will turn on, then off, then just a random clicking, and it will go in cycles, kind of like, you turn the key to start and all you get is a roll over, with out the car actually starting.
if the key in start position, and no starting-- check the wire out at the starter for power–simple test light on one end and turn the key. if no power there, problem can be in the electrical switch. yet if x/load reduction is not getting power, the key side of the switch may be bad. power should only be found at the switch at 30, 15 and x. 30 being allways hot and x 15 being keyed.
the key side meshes w/ the elctrical side. probloem i see–when cars are warm in interior, the tit stops meshing and car wont start–gives appearance that the electrical side is bad because it does not let the 15/x get power. yet not the problem. b/c you can use a screwdriver on the naked electrical switch and get a car to start. if the switch is bad–it is bad. a screwdriver wont start it.
however, your car was starting and dieing after running. which still makes me think fuse block/alarm module. because once you are started, key dont mean shit unless turned off.
the alarm you can bypass and jump. do a search on the net as i dont know exact wire numbers/colors. just know where they are located (behind headlight switch-- wanna say red and red w/ black chaser gets jumped.)
if jumped, nothing else happens, i’d start probing the fuse block at everywhere you should have constant 12v. then work to the switched 12v point. follow circuit x and circuit 15 from the key and see what happens there.
Your problem sounds "some-what"of the experience I had this weekend. I hit the magically 100,000 mark and was driving down the road and the engine just died. But mine, thankfully, threw a cel, P0322? or 21 if I remember correctly. Changed the crank sensor everything seems to be fine, still need to replace the time belt though.
I’ve seen the actual key switch go bad as suggested. I had a CRX where the contact for START was fine, but the detent/contact for RUN was off by a small degree, so the car would randomly shut off if you moved. New switch solved it, though if yours was a mechanical issue like that I think your symptoms would be slightly different. Can you use a screwdriver to bridge the starter itself on a VR6? Just remove the switch from the equation, maybe.