GRIP?

SON240sx Automotive
21

Woaahh buddy i know your a great mech and all i wouldnt argue with you there…but racings my background. The same guy who trained Paul Tracy tought me how race and set up my car on the track…he wants more bite in the rear raising the back will help cause the sidewall to work harder and bite more…with stock suspension you obviously cant adjust much but in the case he had cheap sleeve type coilovers having the rear a inch higher than the front will deffinatly help with making the rear stay PUT. I also stated loose is fast, in most types of racing(FI, Le Mans, Champ cars etc etc)…their all setup with more oversteer in mind…a car that doesnt steer is pretty shitty. now ive got print outs in a binder the size of a dictionary on track setups, argue with me if you want i know thats what you do best. Im not only just repeating whats written in the book but i used this setup before many times. In the rain id always raise the rear otherwise you’d be spining out everywhere. i know soo many guys who would love to extendo dick slap you accross the face… :lol:

[/quote]

22

well dude its easy to get an s-chassis to stick well. let me explain, i talk from experience.

What you want for a fast car is a loose car with an aero push. what does this mean?

a car that naturally oversteers at low speeds, but has downforce setup to make the car slightly understeer at high speed (150kmh+). You want this because a novice driver will be afraid at high speed and its good to give you that comfort in knowing that the car will not step out at high speed and you’l;l be able to push to your limit. You should learn enough car control to hold the car at its limit at low speed (less than 80km/h), because having the back slide a touch on a front engine car will really help the car rotate and it will be much much faster. just look at gymkhana (40km/h racing). grip is about 30% slower than sliding simply because at such low speeds its almost impossible to utilize the rear tires so you need to FORCE the car to slide.

Not to get side tracked, i know that doesnt apply here, but a car that neutrally slides just a TOUCH when you turn is exactly what you want.

Actually, what you want is to be able to turn at the cars limit and feel the rear sliding but not be able to get it into a drift, just have it kind of sliding there at that maximum point but not having an overwhelming amount of front grip to whip the car around.

Ok so thats the ideal car setup. How do you get it? Well if youre experiencing a lot of oversteer right now some more rear camber might help you out a bit, as well as setting your tire pressures. If you still have chatastrophic oversteer i’d stagger the rear tires. Remember we dont want to remove grip from the front we LIKE it whipping the front end around this hard, we just want to get the rear to be able to handle it!

When you’re at a setting you like you need to now practice your driving. If you bomb into a corner hard on the brakes and trail brake like crazy no matter what the car is oging to slide. What you want to do is brake as hard as you can until the turn in point and remove brake as you turn in, your full turn in point should also be your zero brake point. The car should slide a touch and then settle itself by apex and then slowly roll on the throttle WITHOUT SLIDING. this is the fastest way around the corner - you can enter way faster than you normally would be able to with just braking letting off entirely and then turning in.

but it requires a WELL setup car.

now at high speed you don’t want the car to be sliding into corners you just want it planted because at 200km/h a sidways car is a scary one for a novice or intermediate driver. You solve this problem with downforce. Get a rear wing that works and set it up to tune out oversteer at high speed.

If you have anymore questions just feel free to PM me or come by my shop dude, i love this sort of stuff

23

[/quote][/quote]

raising the rear end will make a car looser as you’ll get more weight transfer to the front under cornering and braking

24

just thinking about this some more

your alignment might be messed and you might have crazy rear toe-out, that would cause an othewrise decently handling car to be ape shit loose everywhere

25

As well as the fact that the stiffer sidewalls combined with low profiles, and a mediocre compound are terrible for grip, because having no sidewall or a very stiff one causes the tires to skip and constantly lose traction, causing the car to slide…

Hence why drifters stretch tires…

If you want to be sucessful in grip, practice your lines, run a super stickey tire, with a bit of a sidewall…

26

I’ll vouch for Greg’s FC oversteering 8)

27

I’ll vouch for Greg’s FC oversteering 8)[/quote]

I was navigating… it was way more fun inside the car…

It’s slightly unfortunate the steering angle is less then the S chassis however… but it should be fixable…

28

few items of point here that you seem to have forgotten in your racing experience frenzy, first off, open wheel and saloon at 100% different then it comes to both suspension design/layout and setup. even the way the forces are acting upon that suspension are in completely different places.

You may be able to reiterate what you’ve been told but your by no means ‘suspension competent’.

Without going into the littany of forces and external inputs that need to be applied to your generalizations… you really need to go back and look at the pretty pictures in that binder of yours and maybe read it… provided it actually has words.

You fail to see the balance between tyre wall and suspension setup… which is very very important in Saloon racing.

You have this binder full of ‘print outs’ but you have yet to use a single proper term for any of the motions and movements that you are trying to describe.

the guy who taught PT how to race… PT started out in Kart and stayed in open wheel… karts don’t have suspensions ?!

as for the ‘dick slap que’ I’m still waiting for one of you heros to even say boo to me… never mind get aggressive. Wake me up when someone grows a set. :sleep:

[/quote][/quote]

29

I’ll vouch for Greg’s FC oversteering 8)[/quote]

lol

that was fun

paul when are we doing that this year

GT

30

i want to come in my jeep

bas can you at least proof read your posts dude its like reading the works of an illiterate monkey on acid, you’re not an illiterate monkey on acid are you?

31

no I’m just a monkey on acid.

as for proof reading… that’s what Paul is for.

32

To chip in on the original topic, are you sure that you’re not doing anything to make the car slide? There are a few things that caused me to slide when I didn’t want to:
Not using heel&toe to downshift - This will send your rear end sliding every time from the sudden burst of power.
Touching the brake at any point while turning - This will cause weight transfer to the front of an already front heavy car = back end slides out.
I found that if you don’t do one of those two things, the car will behave itself just fine.

33

hahahah enzo’s little schumi’s post made my fuckn day

“trained by the same guy who taught Paul Tracy to race”

riiiight. That’s particularly funny given what Tracy did to Tagliani this past race weekend. Did your mentor teach you this move as well?

34

“Paul Tracy was put on probation for three races, fined an undisclosed amount of money and stripped of seven championship points for causing a crash that led to a fight with fellow driver Alex Tagliani at the San Jose Grand Prix last week.”

35

Tagliani started it.

36

PT is leaving Cart to go NASCAR-ing… gives him 10 more years of racing at least, so i don’t think he’s too concerned about the fall out with CART on this issue… Bourdais is a snapper head and a pompous goof, of all the racers in open wheel he’s the one I’d punch in the head… he’s done way worse in his very short carrier and should be one of the last people to comment on poor driving composure.

37

haha this thread has been good for a few laughs.

a lot of good information from sasha and bas though too.

Solarian, that “sudden burst of power” is actually your rear tires “dragging” from not rev matching. I’m sure that’s what you meant, just didn’t come out right.

seriously though guys, im pretty much paul tracy.

38

What does Bourdais have to do with it?

39

i used to love tracy, followed indy car before he was even racing… now he is an embarassment… what a stupid stupid move.

40

Yes in fact i was tought by the very best. He was a fellow that came from the BMW series over seas. He was NOT a personal trainer but trained a bunch of us on the team. I raced a number of series mainly world formula and 125cc rotax. I messed around in the honda series and did a year in shifterkarts in the stars of tommorow program. I went over to Europe and finished tenth for canada so lick my nadz ive got all the awards on my wall to prove it. 2nd place overall in ontario and one of they say 400 to be selected to race international repesenting canada. Im sure Sasha remembers me putting on a decent show at one of the kart races…then you bounced…last race my tie rod end was boinked so bad i could hardly turn. I also have a chassis that belongs to villeneuve :lol: I dont race anymore because i ran out of money and was too lazy to go get more sponsorship which was very difficult.