Well done my son. Keep up the good work. NAZI out.
For those that want to help the family, see link below
http://www.nyspeed.com/showthread.php?233766-The-Johnson-Family-Benefit-(Local-House-Explosion)
As is now customary after an accident / tragedy, the Johnson Family has filed a lawsuit blaming NOCO for their lack of response when they reported an issue with their propane. It has become apparent that Mr. Johnson had switched the feed line from NOCO’s tank to another he owned. If my toaster creates a fire in my home I will sue National Grid because they supplied the electricity that powered my toaster. I’ll also call NG if I suspect a problem with the toaster and here it sparking inside, but that’s as far as I’ll go. Glad I didn’t donate.
But if noco would have responded/did their job. He would have had to swap tanks. But that’s a weird lawsuit. Kinda like saying
I bought a Toyota and after hearing about the recalls I decided to drive my other car to work. My other cars wheel fell off and u crashed. In gonna sue Toyota
If the tank was defective, it would’ve leaked outside. Supplier’s responsibility ends at the street / house. The sewer department isn’t going to he liable if your toilet fails! The leak was inside the house. If they were concerned they should’ve called 911, not stayed in the house!
He should of called a plumber about the gas leak if it was inside the house. Or at the very least, the fire department. He was probably just trying to get Noco to take care of faulty plumbing in his home which isn’t their responsibility. Noco lawyers are gonna try to drag him through the mud and show that he was negligent.
Gotta feel bad for the guy. Just wanted to have hot water. Instead lost his daughter and his home.
There is no doubt the explosion was a tragedy, no denying that, and I’m not trying to. My problem is filing a lawsuit against when the homeowner was negligent. NOCO has a responsibility to supply him with a product he asked them to, not to verify the condition / soundness of the installation of the systems carrying their product inside his home. If he had mechanicals installed incorrectly inside the home, look into the installer. If he did it on his own, he’s responsible. If your not sure of what you’re doing, perhaps flammable gasses should be left to professionals.
Agreed
This lawsuit will be a barn burner.
Only to add fuel to the fire…
It is my understanding the the NOCO customer service representative that was called on the day before advised the family that it was a normal condition.
If you call NG;
wrong way:
1SLOZ: “my toaster in sparking”
NG: “that is not uncommon when operating with pop tarts”
right way:
1SLOZ: “my toaster is sparking”
NG: “unplug toaster, trip corresponding breaker, and call an electrician”
not liable way:
1SLOZ: “my toaster is sparking”
NG: “sorry I can not help you”
In this case;
right way:
Momma Johnson: “I smell gas”
NOCO: “is your carbon monoxide detector going off? evacuate the home, open all windows and doors if possible, shut of main gas supply if possible, contact local FD.”
not liable way:
Momma Johnson: “I smell gas”
NOCO: “sorry I can not help you, we are only responsible for the tank”
The liability is with the advice given by the rep.
At this point, I don’t think anyone knows what the NOCO rep may have told the Johnsons. It is also possible that Mr. Johnson did not accurately explain the nature of the problem and the rep. misunderstood. Even if the rep. did say that, why didn’t the man take it upon himself to make the decision to use common sense and say “hey, I’m just not satisfied with that answer. I’m going to call the police / fire department and wait outside until we know everything is safe.” If you smell a strong odor of gas in your car, do you call the gas station to ask them what do do next? This is just another suit in a string of suits that are a money grab. And we all know who pays for these bullshit lawsuits…WE ALL DO !! I’m just getting sick and tired of everyone pointing a finger at the person / group with the money and saying “I was too stupid to think for myself and now you owe me a dumptruck of money so I don’t have to work the rest of my life”. Homeowner’s insurance should cover the cost of the reconstruction of their home, that’s what it’s for. Their daughter’s death was a tragedy, but no amount of money is going to bring her back. Her father is going to have to live with the fact that he made a poor decision (or lack of one at all) that cost him his daughter’s life, his other daughter’s pain and suffering, and the loss of their home.
I believe if someone fills up the tank they have to ensure it is properly certified and in good visual order.
That’s why some suppliers only fill their own tanks. It’s not only to try to get people to switch to them… but so they can keep all their tanks up to code and avoid this drama.
But yes… their responsibility should end at the final regulator or on/off valve that leads in to the house if the company provided it (most do).
Homeowners can run new lines and everything else without anyone knowing.
When I redid my supply line to 3/4", I had a man from Reliable advise on how to run the line through my house then double check everything after I installed it myself, then do a leak check on it.
My HWT filter would clog up terribly. I even posted a thread about it here… Thinking the flue was bad. (it is awful, 3 90s within a foot of each other, with a 4th 90 about 2 more feet down the line) There would be a huge amount of unburned propane produced, and since the flue wouldn’t heat up as quick as it should it would draft pretty crappily and come in the room instead of up the flue.
The HWT would sense too much propane in the air and automatically shut off instead of blowing me up. Very nice feature since I have a small basement (10’x8’)
I’m in total agreement with you. If the tank failed, it should be NOCO’s responsibility. However, the leak was somewhere in the house and not the tank.
Bottom line for me is NOCO’s tank had not been connected to the house for some time. Any leaking propane was not NOCO’s fault, it was the fault of the homeowner trying to save a buck and use his own tanks.
I also have a very hard time believing that ANYONE at NOCO would say, “oh, you have a strong smell of propane in your house, don’t worry about it”.
I think this is a case of the family simply being unable to admit that they caused the death of their own child so their grasping at placing the blame anywhere else. Unfortunately all the details are going to come out at trial and instead of dealing with this in private like they should their bad decisions are going to be laid out for the world to see. I won’t claim to understand how a parent would or could ever deal with having to admit a bad decision you made to save some money cost your child their life.
So much for those arguments; taken from NOCO’s site:
http://www.noco.com/residential_propane
Johnson’s had a leak, they called an expert. Not only did the Johnson family call the supplier, they also called a company that services propane accessories.
What do you think this guy would say if you call him and say you smell gas?
“Now dang nab it, JUDITH, YOU LISTEN HERE! You got to git yer family out of there, open yup yer windows, shut of the main supply, I’ll call the fire department and meet you there Mrs. Johnson.”
I am curious to know what the regulator pressure was on the NOCO tank and the replacement tank.
WHO INSTALLED THE FAULTY SYSTEM IN HIS HOUSE? Did NOCO claim they were contacted about their storage tank or a water heater NOCO installed? Johnson’s called another company besides NOCO? Did Mr. Johnson install or alter something?
Here’s the .pdf of what allegedly happened:
http://www.wgrz.com/assetpool/documents/121026052319_Johnson%20Lawsuit%20Against%20NOCO.PDF
Cliffs:
-
NOCO are experts
-
(3+ years ago) NOCO installed tank, 1st stage regulator, 2nd stage regulator, inspected exterior and interior piping and components
-
1st regulator on tank, 2nd stage regulator on house (so it may or may not be relevant that he hooked up a different tank)
-
The kids are like “WTF smells?” and notify Pappa Johnson.
-
Pappa Johnson contacts daughter, Hannah Johnson, “turn off gas, open up windows”
-
Mamma Johnson comes home from work, “shit kids, you are right, it does smell like gas”
-
Mamma Johnson confirms that the tank is shut off
-
-
- Mamma Jo calls, but it’s an answering service, “I ain’t no technician, I’ll get someone to call back”
-
-
-
- NOCO rep calls back, “You aren’t smelling gas, you are smelling the odorant, which is stronger when the tank is low, as there is more odorant per unit volume, it’s common that it lingers”
-
-
-
- No warning of danger expressed by NOCO rep
-
-
" We can’t sell you more gas right now because our billing is closed."
-
-
- Pappa Jo, “I’m getting a hot shower, I got my own tank, I’m gonna hook that up, because as the rep said that smell is from a low tank, not a leak.”
-
-
… and boom goes the dynamite.
The house was built in 2002, looks like they purchased it in 2008:
Also looks like the ad from 2008 list a tank less water heater as a feature.
Being new, one would assume that no work would have been necessary on any appliances. Also if they could not trouble shoot the leak themselves it is unlikely they would have had the skills to attempt to install or alter anything.
Because, Mrs. Johnson spoke with an expert. That expert gave a satisfactory answer.
That’s why they called an expert.
Do you know who benefits from lawsuits… WE ALL DO !!
NYS will call it Sarah’s Law and require all gas leaks to be reported to the authorities. (But isn’t there already legislation calling for carbon monoxide detectors to be installed in homes?)
The next time a life could be saved.
If NOCO is smart, the next time they call the FD and send out a technician, and they’ll make money on the call.
Yeah, I agree, profiting on lawsuits and getting rich is bullshit, and multimillion dollar suits are absurd.
But, most of our laws are written in blood, and the average American needs to be baby sat.
Not only is having CO detectors in legislation, but it’s also in NEC.
If this part turns out to be true NOCO will be in big trouble.
won’t they have to prove that the above statement was said? It seems right now it’s a he/said she said.