Deleted by Mod
Deleted by Mod
Deleted by Mod Sorry Ian who the F**K is deleting my posts!!!
Busy night for me…deleted by Mod
[/quote]
the reason i posted the above question was to see what you know…i know how it will affect a street car but don’t know what you know. The car i personally worked on is an 86 rx7 base model that now has a turbo II rear, 4 pot brakes and 5 lug.
the front springs are 550lb and rear are 400lbs on revalved koni shocks, stock sways with spherical endlinks (custom mount to make the bar adjustable…to a degree), soild diff mount, and running 16x8.5 kosei k1 wheels with 245 series bfg kdw’s (in case you want the spring constant of that tire i can find it for you)
currently running 3 degrees of camber, 0 toe, and the strut mounts are the same as factory.
Actual useful info and not useless bitching…it’s nice for a change -El
Crousee did you recheck the center of gravity…
Your question didn’t make sense. Perhaps he’d have an easier time answering if you took the time to explain the question better?
The car i personally worked on is an 86 rx7 base model that now has a turbo II rear, 4 pot brakes and 5 lug.
Hooray for you. I’ve done all of the above probably a dozen times by now, or more, but I hardly think that makes me an expert, so how does doing it once make YOU an expert? And I’ll tell you right now rotorkami has a lot more knowledge and experience in this area than I do.
the front springs are 550lb and rear are 400lbs on revalved koni shocks
regular racing beat springs and revalved konis, pretty standard
stock sways with spherical endlinks
hyme joints, nicely done.
soild diff mount, and running 16x8.5 kosei k1 wheels with 245 series bfg kdw’s (in case you want the spring constant of that tire i can find it for you)
currently running 3 degrees of camber, 0 toe, and the strut mounts are the same as factory.
That’s fantastic, but why the description of your car? You’re on your way to a nice setup there and you have some well-placed mods, but it certainly needs some refinement and I definitely don’t recall anyone asking for specifications and it certainly doesn’t make us believe you to be any more knowledgeable or experienced.
on the car in question the center of gravity was lower than stock due to suspension work being done. since it was not my car i did not care to measure where the center of gravity was or would end up. Seeing as the purpose for the car was to be a street car using the stock style suspension and able to do track days/autox on the weekends i did not feel the time spent on doing such things was justified. If this was to be a racing car…I for one would have stuck with the stock engine. Building a race car to the rules is a much better option than building a car and then finding where it can race. The SCCA class it would have been in in open track competition would be gt2/3 where full on full tube frame chassis cars are allow… the stock style suspension can not compete with such things.
At any rate, this thread was supposed to be about what Avery should do to his FC. It’s not a pissing contest. So can we get back to the topic at hand please and thank you?
Don’t want to have Greg come here and lock this because it’s turned into another personal battle.
the front springs are 550lb and rear are 400lbs on revalved koni shocks, stock sways with spherical endlinks (custom mount to make the bar adjustable…to a degree), soild diff mount, and running 16x8.5 kosei k1 wheels with 245 series bfg kdw’s (in case you want the spring constant of that tire i can find it for you)
currently running 3 degrees of camber, 0 toe, and the strut mounts are the same as factory.
let’s see on a ‘normal’ FC your spring rates would promote more FR understeer. However your comment on setup ( camber and toe )leaves allot of be desired… you make no mention of front or rear settings, you make no reference to caster you make no reference to scrub angles, steer center… you’ve pulled a spilner out of your ass… talk about regurgitating info…you’ve done it in spades with no actual information given
Ehh… hate to break it to you, but if you don’t know a lot and can’t do your own work, fabbing custom parts, etc… You’d be better off with an SR. KA’s require way more knowledge, skill and ability to do up. I wanted to do KA-T as well for awhile, then I realized I’m just too dumb to do all the work required. The riceboys did all your work for you with the SR. You name it, it’s out there, and prolly cheap too.
i just didnt feel like righting it all down…
Street setup and autox (understeer is nice)
0 degrees toe front 0 rear (tire wear)
camber 3 front 1.5 rear
koni’s with ground controls 550 lbs springs front 400 rear…i do not have a shock dyno so we let koni match that right. front damping is set 3/4 stiff rear 1/2 stiff
caster best estimate is 10 degrees since the camber plates are clocked…havent taken a plum bob to the the top of the shock mount relative to the floor…from driving feel it is more effort so definately more than stock. I can model the suspension for you if you wish…im sure an old fart like you has used adams before.
scrub angle-steer center-dont care since its using stock control arms, tie rods, and steering arms, same with bumpsteer and no i have not ploted the optimal camber curve for the car either. car is lowered and do not have adjustable everything (nor do i wish to make a spacer to fix any of these problems like raising the steering rack)
this rx-7 i speak of is a street car…if you want the specs of my street vehicle daily driver then i can give you those too…
Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD
camber ft .5 degree rear 0 (solid axle)
toe 0 0
caster stock its a freakin truck
scrub angle who cares its a freakin truck
camber curve who cars its a freakin truck
now if you have all this stuff plotted out on your daily driver…then i feel very very sorry for you…balding middle aged man on an internet forum waiting to die…no sex for you uh??? Last time I checked Ian had a rather full head of hair and is hardly middle aged unless he’s going to die young or something. Oh and he also had a steady GF who was a pretty decent looking young lass. Therefore I say you should STFU and act like a newb for a bit -El play with yourself lots uh???
not even up to the task of being the dirty dirty old man…tisk tisk
Nice comeback Crousee…
What dont you go play with the plum bob and let us know…
My illustrations merely highlight the fact that the vehicles in question ARE PERSONAL STREET VEHICLES. Not all out race cars where handling is the pentultimate factor. Hence, hadling is not always the biggest issue. The car will still handle decently…it will, there is no question about it. It will not handle nearly as well…for SOME people, that is okay. (Not everyone is you, or has to think like you do…it’s okay, your opinion does not have to be agreed with all the time.)
It is not the best option, it IS the easiest and cheapest way to make lots of power for 10 years with no rebuild for little money. You find me a 13BT that puts down 270 to the tire and over 350 ft lbs everyday IN TRAFFIC and constant start and go conditions on 87 octane. Plus getting a consistant 15-20MPG fuel economy. I know it’s not great, but it’s a hell of a lot better than a turbo rotary running on 94 octane getting 10-15MPG.
Nowhere did I say it was a better car. In no way am I a typical “V8 lover.” It’s a cheap…FUN (this is subjective to different people…again…it’s okay to have different ideas of FUN) Cars are fun. I can appreciate a really car, I can appreciate a drag car, I can appreciate a show car, I can appreciate a drift car…the list goes on.
I like V8’s, just as I like ANY INTERNAL COMBUSTION MOTOR.
I also like my money and free time spent on other things besides cars and motorcycles.
Rotorkami wa…you don’t have to be right…you are entitiled to your opinion…that’s good. All I said was that for many people it is a viable option and can be considered a “better” car. Maybe not in the eyes of purists, road racers or rotor heads…but in the eyes of the builder and the owner.
Cheap horsepower, something unique, something a little freakish, something to be proud of…GOOD TIMES!
Would it be any differnet if Avery put an SR20DET in there? Or an RB?
yes yes I know he can build a quick rotary and if you are inclined to do so, all the better for you. Just don’t hate on people who do things differently from you. It takes all sort to make this world up.
Regards, ronnie
BTW If you quote me, please respond to all of it…you always leave out the fact taht it’s supposed to be fun…cars are here for enjoyment…not knowledge lording, I know more than you, I’m faster than you, my this is better than your whatever and my dick is bigger than yours conversations. You know a lot about your cars, that’s good. Don’t let that get in the way of it being fun and letting others enjoy THEIR OWN rides.
Ehh… hate to break it to you, but if you don’t know a lot and can’t do your own work, fabbing custom parts, etc… You’d be better off with an SR. KA’s require way more knowledge, skill and ability to do up. I wanted to do KA-T as well for awhile, then I realized I’m just too dumb to do all the work required. The riceboys did all your work for you with the SR. You name it, it’s out there, and prolly cheap too.[/quote]
I know enough… 
Small fabbing for a easy small turbo build up is not a problem…building a reliable rotary for cheap is a problem for me. 
A simple T3/T4 setup with 8 PSI of boost, tuned ONCE with an SAFC for all condtions on 91 pump octane is all I require out this motor. 215-240 WHP and equal if not better torque is more than enough for me. I just need a little more than stock. I don’t care too much for neck breaking speeds in this car…I can’t afford it right now. If I want all out speed, I do a track day at Mosport on my bike. Or I could sell one of my bikes and build a sick car…that’s not happening though.
Deleted by Mod
That’s all good and everything…but ask yourself WHO is driving the car. Maybe…they just don’t care?
When are you guys going to understand that it’s all subjective…not everyone wants to build a road racer. Not everyone likes the same things as you…or I should rephrase it, maybe not everyone cares as much as you do about these things.
I cannot believe how much this erks you guys…
apparently you don’t practice what you preach, you keep reitterating sentimnets and statments that you asuumed… MY argument and iv’e stated this like 3 times now, is that regardles of how cheap or blah balh whatever you want to say about it… People, and lots of em… SEEM to beleive that the SBC/V8 powerplates ARE the be to end all Actually I think Inline 6’s are the cats pyjamas-El( maybe I went over peoples heads with my V8=unified theory metaphore ) , including the rx7, the claim by most is that the SBC makes the coar perfome better in every aspect, you’ve admitted it does not, so you agree with my argument. Leave it at that and let these other clowns who feel the need to defend the mighty V8 in all it’s shaking and waviering glory have a go at me… I used to constantly defending my opinion/position/knowledge… ad nauseum… but it’s fun to see V8 people flounder around trying to make a V8 seem like it’s the ONLY thing that should be in a FC… Iv’e said this before and I’ll say it agian… anyone out there with a V8 FC or even FD that feels thier setup is the best let me know we’ll setup a road race to demostrate this against my 13BT 
it’s ONLY a 13BT…
Well seeing as Lingenfelter will do a complete LT1 strip down, bore, stroke and build, with all their goodies for $14,000USD the $20,000USD figure isn’t completely out of line. Of course Lingenfelter is probably one of the most expensive places you could take your SBC even if they give you 500hp. A cheap junkyard block and a decent build should net you almost the same hp figures if you spend some time on the dyno with a tuner that knows the LT1.
I disagree that the iron block will throw the weight off that much. As an avid reader of Option Magazine I know you are familiar with the many SR’ed FC’s and FD’s produced by japanese tuners in search of a powerful engine that doesn’t barf up it’s apex seals under stress. Now by most accounts these FC/FD SR’ed cars handle quite well and have no unwanted quirks. I turn now to exibit A, when our dear friends at ORF were building Project 500sx the question was raised “Won’t the uber-heavy iron block Ford 302 mess up the S13’s excellent handling?” Now the ORF boys did some digging around and figuring and it would seem that the 302 and tranny don’t weigh that much more than the SR20DET. I think the number they had was about 50lbs depending on what manifolds were used. Now on a 2500lb car that 50lbs is about 2% of the cars total weight. When you consider that even a light weight driver is still 120-130lbs and a full gas tank will add, lets say, 50lbs at least to the back end the extra 50lbs under the hood doesn’t seem that bad. If anything a low slung weight near the back of the car, maybe just 25lbs, would act as a perfect ballast and reset the cars balance with out slowing it down that much. We are after all talking about a car that will be used on the street mostly.
That’s a retarded statment, your regurgitating crap from 78’ when their actually were problems.[/quote]
You may notice I said that TURBO rotary engines had issues. The reliability of the NA motor is without question. However high powered NA rotary engines have compromises of their own. To make an NA 2 rotor produce close to the 250hp of a stock FD 13b turbo you have to sacrifice things like idle and daily drivability. Most of what relegates Mazda to the sidelines of the sportscar show is the TURBO rotary. Even some of the fastest FD’s in the US (Ari Yallon would be a good example) bring a second motor to the strip because they know there is an excellent chance their engine will puke. Now they are still plenty fast and consistant but, they also have to sit in the pits between runs replacing their wankel’s while their Supra driving friends put down +500whp all day long with no issues.
Now I don’t know that much about airplanes, and I know even less about the tiny homebuilt/hobby planes (see above for a nifty one) that use the wankel to push them through the air. So I decided to google the whole thing and read up. It does apear that there is a rather dedicated community of rotary heads who use the little buggers to fly (quite litterally)lol. The one thing that struck me was that all the guys were using naturally aspiratedrotaries. Of course there were a few who were mucking about with the turbo motors but nearly all of them liked the NA because it was reliable. I found about 3 mentions of the turbo motors in planes in my search while there was a fair bit of info on the NA. I also found out that the rotary is not the best selling engine for aircraft in the world. That title is actually held by the General Electric CFM56. There are over 13,500 CFM56’s in service today and another 1500-2000 will be in new and refitted aircraft by 2007. <----I know that’s just being a bitch but I figured it was worth pointing out. Now Ian, I know you havn’t brought up Mazda’s superb 787B racecar that won the 24h of LeMans in 1991 but I thought I might touch on it briefly since it does seem relevant. All of Mazda’s great 24h endurance cars were NA. Some, like the 787B were 4 rotor cars while most of them in the '80’s (before FIA rules restricted the use of teh rotary. Rules since relaxed) were 3 rotor cars with a few 2 rotors thrown in for good measure. This would seem to point to Mazda knowing the Turbo is the engines achilles heel…Okay I’m tired now and am going to bed. I’m going to mod this thread a bit to pull the silly bitching and leave the good SBC vs. 13b talk. i’ll finish my train of thought later. Night boys.
PS please forgive any typos etc I wrote this while tired. I’ll spell check myself later
shrug I’m merely RESPONDING to what you wrote in your replies to me. Don’t lump me in with all the other iron heads.
Go back read my first post once we started deliberating the pros and cons.
For the most part, not many people really care about all the specifics.
If the car can be made relatively quick with torque down low, RELIABLE for someone who is not an uber tuner, it’s all good.
Sure it will never handle as well as a modded FC, but then again, many who do the swap don’t really care THAT much. Bottom line is tha tthe car will still handle well, albeit, not as well.
I’m not arguing BETTER, I’m arguing practicality. I’m saying that yes, for the money, a Piston engine is more relaible and will produce more results for a LOWER dollar.
Yes yes, I know, it won’t handle as well…it still will ahndle better than most peoples’ lightly modded FWD cars and many poeples’ poorly modded S chassis cars. All this doesn’t matter if you can’t drive. If you CAN drive, you can overcome any downfalls, capitalize on the good points and improve on teh bad points…OR JUST BLOODY WELL HAVE FUN.