Rear window slope angle? The SCCA is nuts...

I asked them to classify the Saturn SL1’s and clarify the SL/SC2’s in Improved Touring and they sent me a spec sheet to fill out, look at the stuff they want…

Vehicle Technical Specifications Required for Classification

Vehicle Parameters: Stock

Vehicle Manufacturer:
Model Name:

Model Year(s):
Annual # of Units:

Wheelbase:
Track (F/R):

Wet Curb Weight:
Windshield Slope Angle:

Rear Window Slope Angle:
Body Style ( 2 door, etc.):

Engine Parameters: Stock

SAE Max Horsepower: @ RPM
Max Torque: @ RPM

Rev-Limit Speed: RPM
Rev-Limit Method:

Fuel Tank/Cell Capacity:
US Gal. Engine Location (frt, mid, rear):

Number of Cylinders: Displacement (cc):

Compression Ratio (max):

Cylinder Block:

Block Material:
Part Number:

Block Deck Height (min):
Deck Clearance (min):

Cylinder Bore (max):
Piston Stroke (max):

Cylinder Head:

Head Material:
Part Number:

Total Combustion Chamber Volume (min) (cc):

Head Flow Type:
Crossflow:
Non-crossflow:

             Page 2

Valve System:

Number of Valves per Cylinder:
Intake:
Exhaust:

Valve Head Diameter (max):
Intake:
Exhaust:

Valve Material:
Intake:
Exhaust:

Valve Actuation Type (pushrod, finger follower, etc…):

Engine Internals:

Piston Type:
Flat:
Dished:
Domed:
Piston Mass (min):

Connecting Rod Length (Center to Center):

Connecting Rod Material:

Connecting Rod Mass:
Piston, Pin, Rod & Ring(s)
Mass (min):

Crankshaft P/N:
Crankshaft Mass (min):

Camshaft P/N: Location/# of Camshafts:

Lift @ Lobe (max):
Intake:
Exhaust:

Lift @ Valve (max):
Intake:
Exhaust:

Rocker Arm Ratio:
Tappet Type:

Intake Manifold:

Manifold Material:
Part Number:

Type of Induction System:
Location of Injectors:

Number of Injectors per Cylinder:
Throttle Body Bore Dia.:

Exhaust Manifold:

Manifold Material:

  Page 3

Drivetrain: Transmission:

Number of Forward Speeds:
Manufacturer:

Gear Ratios: 1st: 2nd: 3rd:

			4th:			5th:			6th:		

Final Drive:

Differential Type:
Open:
Limited Slip:
Torsen:

Differential Manufacturer:
Axle Ratio:

Ring Gear Outside Diameter:

Chassis: Suspension:

Spring Type (coil, leaf, etc.):
Front:
Rear:

Spring Material Dia. / Thickness:
Front:
Rear:

Overall Spring Dia. / Width:
Front:
Rear:

Spring Rate:
Front:
Rear:

Free Length Of Spring:
Front:
Rear:

Anti-roll Bar Diameter:
Front:
Rear:

Anti-roll Bar Design (solid, tube, etc.):
Front:
Rear:

Anti-roll Bar wall thickness:
Front:
Rear:

Bushing Material:

Brakes:

Rotor Diameter (max):
Front:
Rear:

Rotor Thickness (max):
Front:
Rear:

Rotor Type (vented, solid):
Front:
Rear:

Rear Drum Diameter (if so equipped):
Rear Drum Width (if so equipped):

Caliper Type & Number of Pistons:
Front:
Rear:

Stock Tires & Wheels:

Tire Size:
Front:
Rear:

Wheel Diameter & Material:
Front:
Rear:

Wheel Width:
Front:
Rear:

wow, glwt

Just send them back “Honestly, it’s a Saturn, who really cares. I’ll run in xxx class”

Time to look up NASA?

I thought it was the sanctioning body’s job to acquire that information?

NASA or EMRA. But the SCCA is much better at assuring the competition is even. Now I see how they do it, by having every measurement possible.

It seems odd to me that they’d get it from potential competitors. Do they just assume the information they get is accurate?

Seems like most of that information is pretty easy to obtain… :gotme:

Thats what I thought to. That is ridicolous that they are expecting you to figure it out. What do the fees actually go to?

i can get u some of that info

Not all cars IMHO are assured to be competitive. I’ve got a '90 Eagle Talon that, according to the book, must weigh ~50 lbs. less than it comes stock. 2755# is incredibly heavy for an ITA car and is hard to meet once you pull out all non-essential weight and only put back a cage and 1 seat.

here u go

Curb Weight:
http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/curbweight.html

Chassis Specs:
http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/chassisspec.html

Engine Specs:
http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/designspec.html

Compacities:
http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/capacities.html

Gear Ratios:
http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/gearratio.html

Appearantly you haven’t seen the rules for PT, where you class your vehicle, not the other way around :ham:

If it’s not accurate it well get really accurate, really quick if it comes up under protest.

Especially considering most of it is in the Factory Service Manual, which competitors are required to have. The window rake angle is a little out there, and maybe piston weight isn’t out in the open either.

$1.8 million went to insurance premiums last year. Considering a lot of positions are volunteer why shouldn’t a memeber do the research to get the car approved.

No, your car is suppose to weigh at least 2500#. Which is about right given it’s power, and brake size, and “sleekish” aero.

I’ll check it again, but I thought it was 2755#. Yes is has bigger brakes, probably better aero dynamics, but does that dictate an 800# disadvantage over some cars (CRX I think)?

http://scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/ImprovedTouring.pdf

The lightest CRX in ITA is the 1.5l @ 2000 lbs, so that is a 500# disadvantage. That car is 92 hp stock and has to add weight, not remove.

The simplest way to explain it is like this. The '90 Eclipse (135hp stock) is a lot like the NX2000 (140hp stock) @ 2525#. They both have a shitty McPhereson strut suspensions and both have 2.0l DOHC engines. The NX2000 was the Championship car this year. It’s not impossible for a competitve FWD DSM, but I am sure it will take a lot of hard work. How obtainable is the 2500# min weight, I dunno. So, on the other side of the coin is 50% more power worth only 20% more weight?

Personally I’d rather have the Honda just for tire wear and better cornering. And if I could magically wiggle my nose and trade all my Nissan stock for Honda I would. But I also went into knowing that the SE-R/NX2000 would be somewhat competitve.

Yes, there will probably always be a car that will never be a winning car, you just gotta know what is out there and what is competive before you start a build.

My opinion is that if you can get it down to race weight it can vary be competitive.

This is a change for the Talon/Eclipse/Laser for this year then. 250# drop over last season. This is pretty encouraging then. I can pull the weights out!

Most of it is, some of it is not. Not without buying a service manual.

I have all that already, I supplied it to them in the original request.

Apparently not.

If window slope angle isn’t shown in the service manual (for shits and giggles, I skimmed the manual for my car, couldn’t find it), how do you go about measuring that accurately?

A bubble level and protractor. It would take all of 30 seconds, max. :gotme:

[quote=“neurokinetik,post:19,topic:24229"”]

A bubble level and protractor. It would take all of 30 seconds, max. :gotme:

[/quote]

They want FACTORY numbers, Me plus a protractor is not the factory.